Tweaking my shopping list for for the Antec Fusion Remote

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Znorkus
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:15 am
Location: Netherlands

Tweaking my shopping list for for the Antec Fusion Remote

Post by Znorkus » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:08 am

Hi everybody, I've spent a few evenings review-reading and forum-lurking as I want to buy a new PC, which obviously must not make a lot of noise ;-) I already talked to several people and had some advices here and there, and I thought I'd turn here for another proper check with an emphasis on cooling. So here's what this machine ought to do:
-desktop model: I want to plant my 1600-1200 Dell TFT monitor right on top of it
-be silent :D
-be a very fast office PC with good multitasking capabilities (i.e. dozens of firefox tabs opened together with 4 excel sheets, 5 pdfs etc etc etc)
-play 1080hp content (youtube/dvd/bluray) with 40 firefox tabs etc etc opened
-play the occasional game. Dont need Crysis 5 on 8000-5000 resolution or whatever, but it would be nice to check out Starcraft II and Diablo 3 at somewhat acceptable resolutions/detail levels (i.e. not 800-600 lowest but 1280-1024 medium @ 30+ fps). No video-editing or anything of the sort.

What I have come up with so far:

(SEE BELOW - Already much changes made due to advices here)

Thanks for looking into it!!
Daniel
Last edited by Znorkus on Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

djkest
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Post by djkest » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:32 am

TLDR:
I would get an i3-540 and 2x2GB RAM...

Full:I own an NSK-2480, installed with an i5, HD 5770, and mini ninja so I feel I'm qualified to comment:

On the CPU issue-
Most i3 and i5 CPUs do not have integrated graphics, so I believe you are mistaken on this.

I used to run an x2 64 @2.2 GHz in my case. I upgraded to an i5-750, and was surprised at the heat increase despite the more efficient design. Anyway, you should still look at the i5-750 or perhaps an i3 with dual core and hyper threading. I believe the Intel CPUs are superior right now, unless you want to save a few bucks. Check it: x4 Phenoms are 125W thermal envelope, i5-750 and the like are 95W thermal envelope, and the i3-540 and similar are 73W. Believe me, in an NSK-2480, you need a lower power CPU.

RAM: you really should get 2x 2GB instead of 4x1. On most motherboards the Mini-Ninja will block 2 of the RAM slots anyway.

As a point of reference, my wife has a system that has a Single core Athlon 64 @ 2.2 GHz, 1GB of DDR, and she can run all the office programs in the 2007 suite and firefox all at the same time. You are OVERESTIMATING what you need for that in my opinion.

Firefox does still have some memory leak issues, IIRC, so eventually things will slow down.

Znorkus
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:15 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Znorkus » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:13 pm

Ha DjKest thanks for your time! I really appreciate it
.
djkest wrote:TLDR:Anyway, you should still look at the i5-750 or perhaps an i3 with dual core and hyper threading. I believe the Intel CPUs are superior right now, unless you want to save a few bucks. Check it: x4 Phenoms are 125W thermal envelope, i5-750 and the like are 95W thermal envelope, and the i3-540 and similar are 73W. Believe me, in an NSK-2480, you need a lower power CPU.
My original plan was indeed i3/i5, but the i5 increased my budget with about 70 dollars and as you say below, I am indeed overestimating my needs (which is not a big problem 8) ). So the i3 is indeed an alternative. I had chosen the x4 phenom because it adds a 30% performance (according to passmark) to the i3, which is in the same price category. I had not thought on power consumption. Why is it, like you say, lower power consumption is needed? Can't the power supply handle it? Or do you essentially mean that this CPU is really producing too much heat for so small a case? Sorry if my English is a bit crap, I am not a native speaker.

So that would boil down to, lets say for example this cpu/mobo combination:
CPU: Intel Core i3 540, Socket 1156 dual-core proc. @ 3,06GHz, 2 cores, 4 threads
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-H55M-USB3, 1156, H55 , mATX, DDR3, 2x PCI, 2x PCI-e
or
Asus P7H55D-M EVO, 1156, H55 , mATX, DDR3, PCI, PCI-e, PCI-e 2.x 1x

djkest wrote:RAM: you really should get 2x 2GB instead of 4x1. On most motherboards the Mini-Ninja will block 2 of the RAM slots anyway.
I had 1x 4GB in mind, not 4x 1GB Sorry for the confusion. Reason: I can add another 4 GB if I want in 2-3 years. Is that a sound idea? Or is two pieces of 2GB better than one piece of 4GB? I can imagine something like that for Dual Channel, but I do not know..

thx again for the time!

djkest
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Post by djkest » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:29 am

Hello,
No problems, the english is fine.

For the CPU, I was saying I feel that this case can't handle a ton of heat- which is why the CPU producing less heat would be good.

You could still get a Phenom2 x4, I wonder if it is possible to undervolt them a little? I also don't know how cool they run compared to i3/i5.

For the RAM, I think 2 sticks of 2GB RAM is better- you can run them in dual channel and your mini ninja may block 2 of your RAM slots anyway. Later on, if you want to add more RAM, you can do so and still run dual channel.

Does that make sense? I wish someone with some Phenom 2 x4 experience would weigh in.

In my current computer in the NSK-2480, I have a 92mm PWM fan mounted to the mini-ninja pointed to the back of the case. I have both 120mm fan slots on the side blowing IN to the CPU area, with the small black plastic air guide installed. I also have an undervolted 80mm fan inside the hard drive area, for some reason it seems to get really hot with my 7200rpm hard drive installed. I don't know how well hard drives do with heat...

loimlo
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Post by loimlo » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:10 am

If you don't plan on overclocking, you can undervolt Phenom to a degree, but you've to experiment the potential by yourself. Generally speaking, 1.35V~1.25V is doable depending on your luck&patience. Pairing it with a decent tower cooler, you won't hear the sound coming from CPU fan. That said, Ninja mini is almost extinct in the market, don't you consider other alternatives like Scythe Katana 3 or Samurai ZZ?

Znorkus
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:15 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Znorkus » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:55 pm

Thanks again, both!

DjKest: I switched to an i5 cpu/mobo combo. Budget has increased to include an SSD on top of the 1TB samsung. Additionally, I upgraded video to a 5570: more performance, less heat generated.

Loimlo, I will switch to the 1156-ready Scythe Samurai ZZ you recommended, thanks for the headsup! That aside, I do not feel confident enough to mess with voltages yet and also, I ditched the phenom for i5.

Antec New Solution NSK2480
2x Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12L, 120mm
Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H
Intel Core i5 750 (with Scythe Samurai ZZ)
GeIL GV34GB1333C9DC (1 stick of 4GB)
Asus EAH5570 SILENT/DI/1GD2
Intel Postville X25-M SSDSA2MH080G2C1 80GB
Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ, 1TB
Lite-On IHOS104 (4x, SATA-150, dual-layer, Zwart, O...
M-Audio Audiophile 2496

How do you guys like the list? Is the case-cooling allright? What is the noisiest component now?

BTW for a case I heavily consider a similar alternative: Antec Fusion Remote:
http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MTIwMg==
It is about the same case, right so the same hardware should fit without problems? Any pitfalls? After a little searching I found this: Nexus Value 430. Seems like a nice silent budget (case is expensive) power supply.
What do you think ;-)

loimlo
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 3:58 am
Location: Formosa

Post by loimlo » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:07 am

Well, I'd ditch Samsung F3 in favor of slower/quieter 5400RPM models like WD Green, Samsung EcoGreen, or Seagate LP. Just pick one the you trust most. After all, you've a speedy Intel G2 80G which negates the the need of a faster 7200RPM HDD compared to 5400RPM HDDs. Btw, switch from 7200RPM to 5400RPM would further reduce noise .......

Also, 2 sticks of 2GB DDR3 is cheaper, faster in comparison with single stick of 4GB DDR3. 4GB DDR3's pricing is unreasonable for the time being.

Znorkus
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:15 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Znorkus » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:07 am

Yes indeed the HDD speed is not very important to me.
I will then switch to
Samsung EcoGreen F3 HD105SI, 1TB @ 5400RPM.
Thanks for noticing :D

Points of concern left now are:

-case cooling (are the Scythe Slip Streams a good choice)

and

-PSU in the case of Antec Fusion remote 0W. I got recommended by my local dealer (i might let them assemble the thing) this one:
Cooler Master Silent Pro M600. Looks good, but 600 watt is perhaps a little overpowered for the i5 etc.
SPCR recommends this; Seasonic X-400 Fanless. but dang, that is a little above my budget really....
Again, it doenst have to be SILENT, quiet is enough. If someone knows a power supply that can support my current (modest) hardware layout and is not overscreaming the rest of my stuff for a normal price: i'd be very happy with advice on that.

Edit: how about this one: Nexus Value 430? That fits the budget. Does that make any sense?

djkest
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Post by djkest » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:32 am

Nexus Value does make sense.

I have the Antec Earthwatts Green 430W 80plus Bronze PSU. The fan is on the back which I think is better for the 2480 case since the PSU is in it's own compartment. The earthwatts are pretty quiet.

Either one would be good.

Znorkus
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:15 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Znorkus » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:31 am

Thanks once more. Followed most advices.

This is what I got now (with prices in euros):
Items in green: decided, dark red: unsure.

* € 134 Antec Fusion Remote Zilver
* € 56 Antec Earthwatts EA-430D Green
* € 7 (2x) Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12L, 120mm
* € 85 Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H
* € 172 Intel Core i5 750
* € 20 Scythe Samurai ZZ (CPU cooler)
* € 73 GeIL GV34GB1333C9DC
* € 75 Asus EAH5570 SILENT/DI/1GD2
* € 193 Intel Postville X25-M SSDSA2MH080G2C1 80GB
* € 53 Samsung EcoGreen F3 HD105SI, 1TB (5400 rpm version for silent storage)
* € 74 M-Audio Audiophile 2496
* € 53 Lite-On IHOS104 (4x, SATA-150, dual-layer, Black, OEM)
* € 28 Intel WiFi Link 5100
Should I get slipstream SY1225SL12L (800 rpm version) or SY1225SL12M (1200 rpm version)? (to replace antecs 2x tricool case fans). Or should I better get a Nexus? I think in idle/low mode, all of these options work well. But what happens when I stress the system in summer & they need to work? I have no idea how many CFM is needed under full load and 28 celsius room temperature. The tricools can do 73 CFM each, but then they make 36 Db. Is the 73 CFM ridiculous or... needed?
Does the HDD / HDD chamber need cooling as well?

Edit: crap I'd almost forgot my current laptop has wifi and I need a separate PCI card right now. Added it to the list.

Image

djkest
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Post by djkest » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:19 am

Looks great, I should post pics of my rig right now. Although- currently it is less than silent. I need to buy some more 120mm fans.

Looking at your prices, that seems a little high, although you are probably paying VAT. I think my prices from newegg in USD is similar to your prices in Euros. I got my Earthwatts 430 for $40 USD, for example.

ETA: based on my recent experience, I think you will be really pleased with the i5-750, it really is a beast for the money.

Znorkus
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:15 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Znorkus » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:08 pm

AIght thanks for all the feedback guys. I've been asking around elsewhere too, and reading some more reviews (lots here at SPCR, thanks a great deal guys for this beautiful website!!!), and here's my final setup.

Case: Antec Fusion Remote Zilver
Psu: Nexus Value 430
Case cooling: Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12L, 120mm
Mobo: Asrock 890GM PRO3
Cpu: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition
Cpu heatsink: Scythe Ninja Mini Rev. B
Heatsink fan: Nexus 92mm PWM Series Real Silent case fan, 92mm
RAM: GeIL GV34GB1333C9DC
GPU: Asus EAH5570 SILENT/DI/1GD2
SSD: Intel Postville X25-M SSDSA2MH080G2C1 80GB
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS, 1TB
Optical: Lite-On IHOS104 (4x, SATA-150, dual-layer, Zwart, O...
Sound: M-Audio Audiophile 2496
Wireless LAN: Linksys Draadloze N PCI Adapter met Dual-Band - ...

In the end I choose a phenom anyway, because it has savage performance for a good price, and I see no evidence that they are seriously producing more heat then a comparable intel. The Asrock remained as the only AM3 mobo with usb 3.0, sata-600 support, and 2 PCI-slots, which I needed for the dedicated audio PCI card (next to the Wlan card). HDD is replaced by a WD green low-noise disk that is imo higher quality than the samsung 1TB @ 5400rpm, and definitely faster. PSU changed back from Earthwatts to Nexus, as the SPCR reviews clearly showed a big noise difference in favour of the Nexus.

I posted this as a reference for those who want to make a nice silent case in the Antec Fusion Remote thats more then just HTCP but a decent office/multitask machine profiting from SSD and a midweight gaming machine as well with an emphasis on quality, low power consumption and, above all, low noise production.

So thanks all who helped ;-)
(opened another topic for the last decision: if I can cool the ninja with a nexus case fan).

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