Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

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AldenWitt
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by AldenWitt » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:46 pm

bonestonne wrote:I use the 7v hardwire trick on all of my fans except for the PSU. Just about any fan works for me and is very quiet (although all things considered, with a WD Raptor, it's not a quiet computer, just quiet for what it has).

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page1.html

Alternatively, if you felt creative, you could create a 12v/5v switch using cheap parts from radio shack, but that's really for the intense DIY'er. Not sure how much effort you want to put into this, but that 7v mod is where I would start. If the fan is too loud, try that, and just plug it in directly to the PSU using the correct adapter. If the motherboard isn't going to adjust the fan speed, hard wire it, and if it works for you, you can monitor the temps, and if they stay steady, you know you're set.

I have Speedfan installed, but I've never been successful with any of my computers in getting it working. With my fans either PWM or 7v, I just take a look at my temps once in a while (maybe once a month) and if I'm happy, I leave the box alone. If it looks too high, it goes out for a cleaning with the air compressor.

My case, even being old and crappy has filters in the front, so I don't have any worries about massive dust bunnies appearing, and I don't use it as much as I use my laptops at this point, so it's good enough, as I'm still working out the kinks with my audio gear.
Thx for the info bonestonne; I'll consider that. Right now I'm in a long-term email conversation with intel, who claims they can help me out. We'll see if they're right. If not, I'll probably live with it to the point where I decide to invest in the PWM Mate. If I want it hard-wired, I'd just plug it through my Xigmatec knob controller.

victorhortalives
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by victorhortalives » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:39 am

Just noticed this discussion is continuing. Here's my experience with all this :

I also used to do some Audio Editing work with an MAudio 2496 and I found that fans ramping up/down as CPU load changed was more distracting than a constant low noise level.
So I opted to have several low noise fixed speed fans, all controlled by a Zalman MFC1 ( http://www.zalman.com/Eng/product/Produ ... sp?idx=208 ).

I couldn't get SpeedFan to work properly so I used to used it to report on Temps but do nothing more.

Now I know this is contrary to accepted practice, but instead of noise levels going up and down, it was CPU temps that went up and down as CPU loads changed.
By fixing the fan speeds so that the combined noise levels were "acceptable" I used to max the CPU temps at 60C (up from 35C).

If none of the other methods work for you, then try mine. This will avoid any discussions with Intel etc.
Just buy a few quiet fans (and a good passive CPU cooler) and a multi-fan controller.
Zalman has a new version : http://www.zalman.com/Eng/product/Produ ... sp?idx=376

AldenWitt
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by AldenWitt » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:23 pm

So, after a lengthy discussion with intel, I began to suspect that, despite my extreme clarity, they had no idea what the conversation was about to begin with. "Keep in mind that our motherboard BIOS does not have such option to manually control the fans. Another helpful option to narrow the issue is testing a different cooling solution and fan." (That's what I was trying to figure out in the first place).

SO. I decided to see how big of an issue temps really were for my computer. I got Prime65 and ran my cpu at 100% for two hours. I also unplugged the cpu fan, and only had my case fan on minimum speeds. Temps never cleared 53 C.
It appears my heat sink kicks ass. Since I do have a passive gpu as well, and to be on the safe side, I decided not to keep it passive, but rather run my cpu fan through the Xigmatec, single-knob controller that my case fan runs through (with a minor mod to make the 4-pin plug fit the 2-pin controller).

Here's my question: If I have the knob on its lowest setting, both fans run nice and slow/silent (quieter than my HDD noisefloor). However, my cpu fan refuses to start at that low speed (it will run if lowered to that speed, but it just lightly spazzes if started that way). If I leave my computer on this setting for normal operation, will this damage my cpu fan? I don't want to have to remember to reach back and "kick-start" my fan each time I start my computer.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:55 am

AldenWitt wrote:If I leave my computer on this setting for normal operation, will this damage my cpu fan?

It's not unreasonable it may happen, sleeve bearing are less solid: on the other hand, they are cheap to replace.
But does the CPU fan start when you stress the CPU itself?

Just a side note, even if Mugen 2 is one of the best heatsink around, it's not best suited to run fanless due to low fin spacing: so your load temp (53°C) seem a bit too much low to be true, IMO/IME you should have got something in the low sixties... check your monitoring program to be safe.

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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by victorhortalives » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:53 am

I had this problem with some fans. You just have to turn the rpms up a little. (say 700rpm instead of 500rpm)
If this makes too much noise, then consider using more slow running fans to replace a few fast running ones. Experiment.
You may also have to have more than 1 fan controller. For the sake of another €50 or so, don't spoil a €1000 system.

AldenWitt
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by AldenWitt » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:48 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
AldenWitt wrote:If I leave my computer on this setting for normal operation, will this damage my cpu fan?

It's not unreasonable it may happen, sleeve bearing are less solid: on the other hand, they are cheap to replace.
But does the CPU fan start when you stress the CPU itself?

Just a side note, even if Mugen 2 is one of the best heatsink around, it's not best suited to run fanless due to low fin spacing: so your load temp (53°C) seem a bit too much low to be true, IMO/IME you should have got something in the low sixties... check your monitoring program to be safe.
Well, no it doesn't anymore, because I've hardwired it to the fan controller. I just want to make sure that undervolting it to the point where it won't start won't damage the fan (I can always turn up the knob if I need to kick up the cooling). Right now I'm keeping it set just high enough that both fans are running from startup, but I want to know what my options are.

Yeah, I'm pretty surprised at those low temps. I was using SpeedFan which gave me temp readings for each core, all moving around 49-53 C. I did have a case fan running on low speeds, which is only 1.5" from the sink. This thing's always been running super cool though; idling around 25C and up to 30C under loads.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:51 am

Even if the case fan was so close to the heatsink, just to be definitely safe give a further read to those figures with Real Temp (you may find it on TechPowerUp! site): they should be identical (or you need an offset on SpeedFan).

AldenWitt
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by AldenWitt » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:44 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Even if the case fan was so close to the heatsink, just to be definitely safe give a further read to those figures with Real Temp (you may find it on TechPowerUp! site): they should be identical (or you need an offset on SpeedFan).
Thanks quest, I did that. Speed Fan reads
System: 25
CPU: 25
AUX 22
Core
1: 12
2:13
3:12
4: 12

Real Temp reads
25, 26, 25, 24

I'm guessing that those 4 numbers for real temp are the cpu core temps, which would indicate I've got a 10 degree differential? Which would boost my test temps up to low 60s, which would make more sense. Thoughts on this?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:38 pm

AldenWitt wrote:I'm guessing that those 4 numbers for real temp are the cpu core temps, which would indicate I've got a 10 degree differential? Which would boost my test temps up to low 60s, which would make more sense. Thoughts on this?

AFAIK your guess should be right: I've heard of some issues about Sandy Bridge's temp with current SpeedFan, to be fixed with the upcoming 4.43 release (there's the beta on almico.com site, I haven't a SB so I can't check by myself).

If you ever thought to stick with that SpeedFan 4.42, I mean you should set a 13°C offset in the relevant Advanced Tab in order to set a potential desired temp of about 55-60°C and a max temp of about 65-70°C, with a probable fan speed of about 25%-30% (3-400rpm) under the first threshold, and a max speed of about 40-45% (6-700rpm: over the max set temp the CPU fan will automatically speed up to 100%). If that should work, you should never hear that fan while being perfectly safe.

defaultluser
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by defaultluser » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:17 pm

Man, I wish I had seen this thread before I bought my Sandy Bridge upgrade on Monday. I just got my Intel DP67BA installed, and NO FAN SPEED CONTROL. I can't seem to throttle it even with SpeeedFan v4.42 (tool shows 3 speed controls, and none do anything). The BIOS only has a hardware monitor - there is no way to change anything in terms of fan speeds. My Mugen 2 fan is running full-out at 1300 RPM, and my Chassis fans are running at their full speed of 1200 RPM.

Despite the fact that this PDF states the following:

CPU fan control
Front and rear chassis fan control

When I try to run Intel Desktop Utilities, it fails to launch.

The funny thing is, I know this board can throttle the fans. When I first start my system, the fans are silent, and when I get to Windows the speeds start ramping up to max.

So, can anyone offer me any help? I can't use SpeedFan to control the speeds, and I can't use the Intel program. Is my only option to go buy a fan controller (or do the old 7v trick?). It's pretty much false advertising on Intel's part to put that lie in a product spec sheet if it's not really supported.

AldenWitt
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by AldenWitt » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:04 am

defaultluser wrote:Man, I wish I had seen this thread before I bought my Sandy Bridge upgrade on Monday. I just got my Intel DP67BA installed, and NO FAN SPEED CONTROL. I can't seem to throttle it even with SpeeedFan v4.42 (tool shows 3 speed controls, and none do anything). The BIOS only has a hardware monitor - there is no way to change anything in terms of fan speeds. My Mugen 2 fan is running full-out at 1300 RPM, and my Chassis fans are running at their full speed of 1200 RPM.

Despite the fact that this PDF states the following:
CPU fan control
Front and rear chassis fan control
When I try to run Intel Desktop Utilities, it fails to launch.

The funny thing is, I know this board can throttle the fans. When I first start my system, the fans are silent, and when I get to Windows the speeds start ramping up to max.

So, can anyone offer me any help? I can't use SpeedFan to control the speeds, and I can't use the Intel program. Is my only option to go buy a fan controller (or do the old 7v trick?). It's pretty much false advertising on Intel's part to put that lie in a product spec sheet if it's not really supported.
Well, I mean technically it does provide cpu fan control. It's just entirely automatic. That's probably enough for the casual user; that said, the casual user probably isn't buying a motherboard.

I was, to an extent, able to use SpeedFan to control the speeds. Go to configure, advanced, Chip: Winbond W83....etc. Then go to PWM 2 mode and switch it to manual. Then, on SpeedFan's opening menu Speed02 will control your cpu fan. That said, I was not totally sure how it was controlling it, or how to automate control, and it wasn't an entirely reliable method. And apparently SpeedFan's temp readings need to be calibrated: they read about 10C low. I found it much easier to opt for a manual controller.
Great thing about the SB chip is that it runs quite cool. I have the same HS and never seem to clear ~40C (30 in SpeedFan). This is in my less-than-open Antec Solo. I have my case and cpu fan both hooked up to a little knob in the back, turned to just about minimum, and I'm quite satisfied. That said, I'm not overclocking or anything.

EDIT: But yeah, it's annoying. And intel's tech support was just ridiculous. Like talking to a brick wall.

defaultluser
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by defaultluser » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:23 am

AldenWitt wrote:
defaultluser wrote:Man, I wish I had seen this thread before I bought my Sandy Bridge upgrade on Monday. I just got my Intel DP67BA installed, and NO FAN SPEED CONTROL. I can't seem to throttle it even with SpeeedFan v4.42 (tool shows 3 speed controls, and none do anything). The BIOS only has a hardware monitor - there is no way to change anything in terms of fan speeds. My Mugen 2 fan is running full-out at 1300 RPM, and my Chassis fans are running at their full speed of 1200 RPM.

Despite the fact that this PDF states the following:
CPU fan control
Front and rear chassis fan control
When I try to run Intel Desktop Utilities, it fails to launch.

The funny thing is, I know this board can throttle the fans. When I first start my system, the fans are silent, and when I get to Windows the speeds start ramping up to max.

So, can anyone offer me any help? I can't use SpeedFan to control the speeds, and I can't use the Intel program. Is my only option to go buy a fan controller (or do the old 7v trick?). It's pretty much false advertising on Intel's part to put that lie in a product spec sheet if it's not really supported.
Well, I mean technically it does provide cpu fan control. It's just entirely automatic. That's probably enough for the casual user; that said, the casual user probably isn't buying a motherboard.

I was, to an extent, able to use SpeedFan to control the speeds. Go to configure, advanced, Chip: Winbond W83....etc. Then go to PWM 2 mode and switch it to manual. Then, on SpeedFan's opening menu Speed02 will control your cpu fan. That said, I was not totally sure how it was controlling it, or how to automate control, and it wasn't an entirely reliable method. And apparently SpeedFan's temp readings need to be calibrated: they read about 10C low. I found it much easier to opt for a manual controller.
Great thing about the SB chip is that it runs quite cool. I have the same HS and never seem to clear ~40C (30 in SpeedFan). This is in my less-than-open Antec Solo. I have my case and cpu fan both hooked up to a little knob in the back, turned to just about minimum, and I'm quite satisfied. That said, I'm not overclocking or anything.

EDIT: But yeah, it's annoying. And intel's tech support was just ridiculous. Like talking to a brick wall.
Yeah, it turns out that this morning, I noticed that with Intel Desktop Utilities installed, the CPU fan was being throttled automatically. No settings were available, but it was throttled to about 800 RPM.

Thanks for that suggestion on the Advanced features, I didn't know you could tweak that. Turning all 3 PWM inputs to Manual, I find that the CPU fan and front chassis fan can be controlled. However, if you crank down the other two fans too far, the automatic Intel software responds by cranking the rear chassis fan to 1200 RPM. So, I've found a much quieter middle-ground, but it's not as silent as I had on my previous build (using the same chassis and fans, but the Mugen 2 was new - I expect that to be quieter than the stock Intel heat sink I was using, once I tweak a bit).

So, I guess I'll be buying a fan controller.

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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by victorhortalives » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:25 am

Good choice, then you can do what you like.

AldenWitt
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by AldenWitt » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:54 am

Yeah, less hassle than deciphering the quirks of the software.
Plus, if you get a cool looking one, it will look cool.

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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by MikeC » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:48 pm


defaultluser
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by defaultluser » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:19 pm

AldenWitt wrote:Yeah, less hassle than deciphering the quirks of the software.
Plus, if you get a cool looking one, it will look cool.
Well, it turns out that I actually have a Fanmate buried in my old PC parts. Guess it was leftover from my last Zalman purchase. I attached it to the rear Chassis fan that I can't control via SpeedFan.

So, the system is as quiet as I want it to be, but now I have just one problem:

1. How do I get SpeedFan to load on startup?
2. How do I save my current configuration, so the fans throttle down (this requires clicking Configure, Advanced, and setting PWM mode to Manual - also, the fan speeds default to %50, which is too high)?

I can launch it and configure it myself, but I can see this getting old fast.

I do love my Mugen 2 - it's such an improvement over the Intel stock HSF! It can cool my 2500K just fine fully-loaded at 700RPM, and it still won't top 55C (yes, I accounted for the reporting error). Running the system at full-bent finally doesn't mean outrageous fan noise. It's as quiet at load as it is at idle :D

quest_for_silence
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:32 pm

OT
AldenWitt wrote:intel's tech support was just ridiculous. Like talking to a brick wall.

IME a lots of tech support are actually dull or dumb, even some somehow respectable names as Asus, Gigabyte, DFI-LanParty (r.i.p.), Corsair, eVGA, et c.

/OT

quest_for_silence
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:17 pm

defaultluser wrote:1. How do I get SpeedFan to load on startup?

Using regedit add a string inside:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
called:
Speedfan (for example)
with this value:
"C:\Program Files\SpeedFan\speedfan.exe" (if you installed SpeedFan there, of course)
defaultluser wrote:2. How do I save my current configuration, so the fans throttle down (this requires clicking Configure, Advanced, and setting PWM mode to Manual - also, the fan speeds default to %50, which is too high)?

I haven't understood what you're looking to do.

AldenWitt
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by AldenWitt » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:56 pm

Hey guys, not to distract from defaultluser's questions, but here are some pics of my completed build. Thanks so much to the posters in this thread, as well as the writers of the wealth of information available in the article section of the site. I find myself going there for reviews of computer parts even when silencing isn't an issue; the quality of the reviews is simply some of the best around.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Publi ... r=15219012
It runs like a gentle breeze. That's, like, on fire. So yeah, it's super quiet but super fast.

Completed! (and with the desk cleaned up)
Image
All the parts!
Image
Inside!
Image
From the back! All dem' cable managing. This case was great for it. Not that I've ever done this before.
Image
In my home studio. Now all I need is to get my acoustic treatment up.
Image
I couldn't be more pleased!

defaultluser
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by defaultluser » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:36 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
defaultluser wrote:1. How do I get SpeedFan to load on startup?

Using regedit add a string inside:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
called:
Speedfan (for example)
with this value:
"C:\Program Files\SpeedFan\speedfan.exe" (if you installed SpeedFan there, of course)

I tried that, Windows 7 Home won't run it on startup because the program needs admin access.

How can I get around the need for UAC (without turning UAC off completely of course)? Is there some way I can whitelist certain programs?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Advice Needed on Audio Editing PC Build

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:29 pm

defaultluser wrote:Is there some way I can whitelist certain programs?
I can't help definitely, but to disable on a case by case basis the UAC, you may use either Task Scheduler (triggering a new task with SpeedFan to run at startup with elevated privileges), or the Group Policy Editor (but this latter I guess it might be not available on Windows Home or Home Premium) in order to modify the logon script to run SpeedFan with elevated privileges.

Another way may be trying to hack the Compatibility Mode in the registry: using regedit you should add a string inside:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers
called:
C:\Program Files\SpeedFan\speedfan.exe (if you installed SpeedFan there, of course)
then (right-clicking) modify that string typing in the relevant "value_data" box:
RUNASADMIN
eventually save and reboot: if it shouldn't work, you may try to modify that "value_data" with:
WINXPSP3 RUNASADMIN

Last resource is to have a proper shortcut in the Startup folder: but I mean that if you have problem with the registry, you may likely got the same with the startup folder.

At anyway I can't give you any assurance on the effectiveness of these hacks (I usually disable UAC, it just sucks IMVHO).

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