(probably) 754 m-atx motherboard suggestions?!

[mb2]

since my m7ncg400 broke, i'm thinking of going for an upgrade.. id like to spend as little as reasonably possible thou.
cant afford dual right now, so i'm thinking of probably s754, and a sempron64, somewhere between 2500+ - 3100+.
not too bothered about mhz as all should OC fine, not quite sure weather to fork out more for the more cache and/or CnQ.
- am i right in thinking that anything under 3000+ will not only lack CnQ, but wont have any voltage adjustments available in the bios either?
the multi is probably too low on the 2500+ also to allow it to OC as full as it will easily go.

when u get to the 3100+ it nearly makes an opty 144 worth getting thou..

so it really comes down to motherboards.. if there is a much better motherboard solution for 939 and not 754 then i might stretch to 939.

so, i want to know what my options are regarding motherboards.. i need;
m-atx
decent integrated gfx (ie t-force or ati)
pci-e
sata
passive chipset (but all t-force and ati are i think anyway)
OC options (high HTT, ram dividers to use pc3200...)
..is it possible to raise cpu voltage and freq using software with CnQ cpus?.. if so then i dont mind just OCing in windows or whatever. same applies for undervolting.

obviously theres a lot of other stuff that would be 'nice'.. GbE, DVI, HD-audio. cheap is also a nice thing no doubt.

so what are my motherboard options???

[Staats]

I just built a system using the Biostar tforce 6100... It has plenty of overclocking option, passive cooling, PCI-e, geforce 6100 integrated graphics etc. Check it out at NewEgg.com. It is a pretty clean install really - and it has a reset and power switch on the mobo!! That is a nice feature if you tinker a lot with the system...

[Felger Carbon]

I just built a system using the Biostar tforce...

Does this board natively boot from SATA? There's an MSI 6100 754 board that sez it can boot from SATA, and other stuff like Lan.

[Staats]

It can boot from SATA or IDE - I have it booting from a WD raptor on SATA ch 1, and have optical drives on IDE 1. No problems at all.

[mb2]

biostar seems alright, doesn't have much over-and-above the basic thou but.. OCs well right

anyone know about the Albatron KM51pv-754 ? (or the G one).. as in can they OC?
would it be possible to OC using the CnQ stuff if theres no settings in the bios?

and u cant get the 6150 with the 410 can u ?

[Erssa]

Biostar t-force is probably the only matx with IGP and decent oc options, but lacks GbE, HD-audio, and DVI.

If you want to know, if a certain board has OC options, dl the manual and take a look at the HTT, voltage etc options, that alone will tell alot, although not everything.

You cannot get the 6150 with 410 chipset, but for example Biostar gf6100 solution is just as fast as asus a8n-vm csm (because asus is slow), although asus has the gf6150. 430 has better features though...

- am i right in thinking that anything under 3000+ will not only lack CnQ, but wont have any voltage adjustments available in the bios either?

No you are not entirely correct. Cpu has nothing to do with bios voltage adjustments. They depend entirely on motherboard. As for CnQ, you are right semprons below 3000+ lack the option, but it is a feature of the cpu.

so, i want to know what my options are regarding motherboards.. i need;
m-atx
decent integrated gfx (ie t-force or ati)
pci-e
sata
passive chipset (but all t-force and ati are i think anyway)
OC options (high HTT, ram dividers to use pc3200...)
..is it possible to raise cpu voltage and freq using software with CnQ cpus?.. if so then i dont mind just OCing in windows or whatever. same applies for undervolting.

obviously theres a lot of other stuff that would be 'nice'.. GbE, DVI, HD-audio. cheap is also a nice thing no doubt.

GbE, DVI, HD-audio... these would limit your choise to zero I think. Asus A8N-VM CSM has these features, but it has limited HTT adjustments (max 240) and no voltage adjustments, which on the other hand seems to be a major trend with these mATX motherboards. Think really closely what you want. Because you can't have it all.

Edit: First (non production) version of Sapphire Pure Innovation, that was shown last spring (at CES last april?) had IGP. It really was a damn shame, that they dropped the IGP out from the production version. The motherboard is pricy as hell (230e here in Finland), and imo has now nothing else to show off, except the nice and unique white pcb color. Sure it is an excellent overclocker, but so are many other mobos. Had it had the IGP radeon x300, I would have bought it, despite the price premium. Because the market really has no board, with good hardware features and IGP combined with good bios features.

[mb2]

GbE, DVI, HD-audio... these would limit your choise to zero I think.

yeah, i know.. which is why it they were in the 'nice' pile rather than the 'need' pile. but one of them would have been nice..

does the asus even have a 754 version?
anyone know about the albatron?
..are there any other contenders?

how far will the biostar OC to?

[Erssa]

Just wanted to say that this motherboard can not be beat for farmers... or "budget" minded people.

My 165 is running 298x9(2.67GHz)@1.54v full-load 24/7. This motherboard has been a pleasure overclocking. The only "odd" thing is that the Vcore isn't labelled correctly in the latest BIOS. At the 1.7v setting I'm getting ~1.55v.

Just be sure to upgrade to the latest BIOS and you should get great results.

TWO THUMBS UP FOR under $80 delivered!!!

Pretty good overclock, but I doubt it was done using IGP. Much depends on the skills of the overclocker.

No asus doesn't have s754 versio of the A8N-VM CSM.

..is it possible to raise cpu voltage and freq using software with CnQ cpus?.. if so then i dont mind just OCing in windows or whatever. same applies for undervolting.

Dynamic overclocking is possible. There has even been an artictle about a software on these forums. I advice to use the search feature a bit more. And using some google wouldn't hurt either. I bet noone on these forums can tell you, if it is possible for you to use crystalCPUID for dynamic overclocking. So much depends on the chipset support of the program. And lets keep in mind, that C51 chipset is pretty new, and not exactly popular with people who do these sorts of thing and to mention that most of C51 chipset based mobos don't offer these possibilities..

[Staats]

I've been messing with CystalCPUID this evening. The chipset allows full software control of voltage and multipliers. The bios has plenty of OC options. I'm actually running it undervolted and underclocked to see how hot it'll get running with minimal fans.. Running my A64 3000+ (E6 stepping) @ 1.225V @ 6X is yeilding a burn temp of 31-32*... The fan is inaudible on the artic A64 freezer pro too!

[stupid]

since my m7ncg400 broke, i'm thinking of going for an upgrade.. id like to spend as little as reasonably possible thou.

I just want to point out to you that going for a Sempron 64 3100+ may not offer much improvement over your current CPU. For example, looking at some benchmark numbers the Sempron 3400+ is approximately the equivalent to the Athlon XP 2600+ when doing audio and video conversion. In terms of playing games (I doubt the PC is for hardcore gaming since you're looking for IGP) it performs a little better than the Athlon XP 3200+.

The cheaper route maybe to actually just buy another M-ATX socket A motherboard. Yes, it most likely will not allow you to undervolt, but if you will not be seeing any performance improvements then it may be a waste to buy a new motherboard and CPU.

The money you save on the CPU will offset any increases in your electricity bill, and can be used as your "initial funds" towards a real upgrade in the near future. Just add a few quids every now and then to build up your fund so that you can buy a socket 939 motherboard and Sempron based on the S939, or a full fledge Athlon 64.

[mb2]

Staats...
are u using IGP? ..if not could u please try to OC with IGP?
..cuz i thought the way these IGPs worked wasn't related to the HTT, therefore u should be able to OC whilst using IGP?

its so hard to find information on 754 boards.. the gigabyte for example... i think it has voltage and htt adjustment to 300 according to the manual (IIRC) but how far can it go?.. no one has reviewed it as they all review the GA-K8N51GMF-9 (s939 version).. but that has 430+6150, whereas the 754 version has 6100/410..
and, does it have HD audio?.. it has 7.1.. does that mean it has HD?.
..really confusing.

the albatron also is 'coming up' so i dont know if that will OC or how..

i'm sure there are some other boards?? ..i want to consider everything so i know i'm getting the best solution..
arggh.

[mb2]

re: stupid "i just want to.."

at this point i'm thinking i may aswell take the opportunity and move to s754 (subject to finding a good MB). yes, theres no dual core option but the price premium is so much for no real performance gain (when u factor OC in), i cant really afford dual core atm and theres another socket on its way anyway..
it will have better onboard GFX, pci-e, 64bit, sata, be cooler no doubt and (perhaps) c&q.
when u factor in what i could get for my old processor on ebay, the fact i'd have to buy a sata card, and the high price of SoA boards (u can't even get a cheap 2nd hand one on ebay).. its not so expensive seeming.

i have a 1700+.. yea i can OC that to ~2.2ghz.. but that would require a board that can OC..
also i want m-ATX.. finding an mATX board that is 'ok' and can OC in the uk is near impossible. and, its almost the same price as the 754 board.
and, when i OC the processor then it will be a lot faster than my 1700+ (when also OCed.. and cooler, therefore quieter...)
there are a lot of advantages however, speed being only one.
and i see no point in going 939 if it costs more, unless u go DC.. which i can't afford now. and when i can, i'll want a new board.. new socket.

and, i do want to game a bit.. but, i'm happy to make do with low resolution and low settings (on the latest games) for a while until i get a PCI-E card. i dont require 100fps 1600x1200 highest settings to enjoy a game unlike most people.

[Staats]

I'll mess around with OC'ing the board this evening and let you know how it goes.

[mb2]

thanks.. also, if using a 20 pin psu does it need the 4pin p4 connector? .. or can it run with just 20pin psu?

[QuietOC]

Just wanted to say that this motherboard can not be beat for farmers... or "budget" minded people.

My 165 is running 298x9(2.67GHz)@1.54v full-load 24/7. This motherboard has been a pleasure overclocking. The only "odd" thing is that the Vcore isn't labelled correctly in the latest BIOS. At the 1.7v setting I'm getting ~1.55v.

Just be sure to upgrade to the latest BIOS and you should get great results.

TWO THUMBS UP FOR under $80 delivered!!!

Pretty good overclock, but I doubt it was done using IGP. Much depends on the skills of the overclocker.

My Sempron 2800+ is quite happy on my TForce 6100 at 8x300MHz=2.4GHz while using the IGP and with two 256 PC3200 modules installed. Better than my old nForce 250Gb board. The ASUS S939 GeForce 6150 CSM board wasn't reliable for me. I wish my Sempron had Cool'n'Quiet though.

I did get the ASUS to run a A64 3200+ at 10x240=2.4GHz, but it was flaky. Sometimes wouldn't post for no particular reason. If you are planning on gaming on the IGP a S939 will be slightly faster, but the 6100/6150 IGP is mostly pixel shader/fillrate limited, so the S754 version is NOT 50% slower.

Memory performance on the TForce 6100 also seam to be just as good as a real nForce4 board if you install a PCIe video card, which is what I am doing now. Sempron 2800 + Tforce 6100 + x800GTO = cheap, small, great performance.

[Erssa]

Just wanted to say that this motherboard can not be beat for farmers... or "budget" minded people.

My 165 is running 298x9(2.67GHz)@1.54v full-load 24/7. This motherboard has been a pleasure overclocking. The only "odd" thing is that the Vcore isn't labelled correctly in the latest BIOS. At the 1.7v setting I'm getting ~1.55v.

Just be sure to upgrade to the latest BIOS and you should get great results.

TWO THUMBS UP FOR under $80 delivered!!!

Pretty good overclock, but I doubt it was done using IGP. Much depends on the skills of the overclocker.

My Sempron 2800+ is quite happy on my TForce 6100 at 8x300MHz=2.4GHz while using the IGP and with two 256 PC3200 modules installed. Better than my old nForce 250Gb board. The ASUS S939 GeForce 6150 CSM board wasn't reliable for me. I wish my Sempron had Cool'n'Quiet though.

I did get the ASUS to run a A64 3200+ at 10x240=2.4GHz, but it was flaky. Sometimes wouldn't post for no particular reason. If you are planning on gaming on the IGP a S939 will be slightly faster, but the 6100/6150 IGP is mostly pixel shader/fillrate limited, so the S754 version is NOT 50% slower.

Memory performance on the TForce 6100 also seam to be just as good as a real nForce4 board if you install a PCIe video card, which is what I am doing now. Sempron 2800 + Tforce 6100 + x800GTO = cheap, small, great performance.

That's a great overclock. Yeah I like your sempron system, that's what I call budget gaming rig. Would be a better with 2x512 memory though. Gaming on IGP is pretty pointless anyway, but imo overclocking potential gives mobo much more value, especially to a one like this, which has good value to start with.

[QuietOC]

That's a great overclock. Yeah I like your sempron system, that's what I call budget gaming rig. Would be a better with 2x512 memory though. Gaming on IGP is pretty pointless anyway, but imo overclocking potential gives mobo much more value, especially to a one like this, which has good value to start with.

Well, I wouldn't call it a "great" overclock. I would call it a mild overclock. Nice and quiet. Before I got this TForce I had to put up with running it at 2.0GHz or 2.5. For some reason my NForce 3 didn't like HT speeds between 260 and 310 MHz. It ran 310~325MHz just fine though. And the latter range required too much noise with my Zalman 7000Cu.

A good overclock was a $45 Tbred 1700+ at 2.4~2.5GHz a few years ago. Tbred + unlocked 9500non-pro was great gaming combination for quite a long time. Spent too much for a Barton 2500+ which was only a little cooler running. The Sempron is a little cooler, faster yet, but the x800GTO is a big step up from 9700 era. Maybe AMD will have $70 dual core 65nm Semprons in the next year or so...

512MB still sin't much of a handicap for most uses, but I do have a new pqi 1GB PC3200 2-3-2 module coming from Newegg...

[Rory Buszka]

ASRock has a board at NewEgg that has a built-in GeForce 6100.

[mb2]

just to point out there *is* a difference between the GeForce 6100-M7 SKT 754/939 and the Biostar TForce 6100 754/939...
they have the same features, and i assumed the GeForce was just an OEM version.. as they only have one s754/ 6100 board listed on their website(!), the M7.
but the TForce has more of them coily-things (no idea of the name, sorry..look at the detailed pictures of the boards) etc and probably different caps.. so it can OC better, i imagine arguably more stable etc etc. may be different Bioses but IDK.

[QuietOC]

just to point out there *is* a difference between the GeForce 6100-M7 SKT 754/939 and the Biostar TForce 6100 754/939...
they have the same features, and i assumed the GeForce was just an OEM version.. as they only have one s754/ 6100 board listed on their website(!), the M7.
but the TForce has more of them coily-things (no idea of the name, sorry..look at the detailed pictures of the boards) etc and probably different caps.. so it can OC better, i imagine arguably more stable etc etc. may be different Bioses but IDK.

Yes, I believe they share the same pcb design, but the TForce version has better components (I heard better capacitors). I'd spend the extra on the real TForce as the price difference is small. The TForce 6100 754 is on their website, I downloaded a BIOS from there. I know you can get to it from the special TForce section at least.

[Erssa]

Hmm at least one post I made to this thread has gone with the wind during the server downtime.

QuietOC: 300x8 is great overclock, not mild. 50% increase in clock frequency is great oc by any standard. It is also the _best possible_ overclock with that mobo + cpu combo.

[QuietOC]

Hmm at least one post I made to this thread has gone with the wind during the server downtime.

QuietOC: 300x8 is great overclock, not mild. 50% increase in clock frequency is great oc by any standard. It is also the _best possible_ overclock with that mobo + cpu combo.

No, certainly not the best possible. 300MHz HT speed is not the end of the line. I hope to have it running a lot faster (and quieter) when I get my SCNJ-1000!!!

[Erssa]

I was under the impression that 300mhz was the limit in bios. At least it was according to the quick review in anandtech. Although that was for the s939 Biostart Tforce 6100 M9. I should have downloaded the manual and checked before making claims.

I stand corrected. Still you gotta admit it. 50% overclock for a cpu is good value and a bit more then just mild .

Edit: fixed a typo.

[QuietOC]

I was under the impression that 300mhz was the limit in bios. At least it was according to the quick review in anandtech. Although that was for the s939 Biostart Tforce 6100 M9. I should have downloaded the manual and checked before making claims.

CPU HT speed on the socket 754 TForce 6100 goes from 200 to 450MHz in the BIOS.

[mb2]

thanks.. also, if using a 20 pin psu does it need the 4pin p4 connector? .. or can it run with just 20pin psu?

[QuietOC]

thanks.. also, if using a 20 pin psu does it need the 4pin p4 connector? .. or can it run with just 20pin psu?

I've only run it off 24pin power supplies. This one (Antec Minuet II case) is only 220W, but it does have the 24pin connector.

[Erssa]

thanks.. also, if using a 20 pin psu does it need the 4pin p4 connector? .. or can it run with just 20pin psu?

I would say yes. It will need the 4pin p4 connector.

[QuietOC]

thanks.. also, if using a 20 pin psu does it need the 4pin p4 connector? .. or can it run with just 20pin psu?

I would say yes. It will need the 4pin p4 connector.

The new ATX spec is for motherboards with a 24pin main connection plus a 4pin connection. Original ATX was a 20pin connection. The TForce 24pin is designed to let an old 20pin supply connect to it (as I assume all the other new boards probably let you do too.) Really as long as the power supply can supply the current the motherboard needs you shouldn't have a problem.

Also, the extra 4 pins on my Antec's main cable can snap on and off from the old 20pins in case you want to plug it into an old 20pin board that has components near the ATX connection.

[mb2]

some of the earlier motherboards with a p4 connector didn't require it to be plugged in.. but if the consensus is that u need one then i guess i better get an adaptor..

[Erssa]

Just dont plug it in the 4 remaining pin holes, that remain in the 24pin slot after the 20pin cable .

You should dl and read the manual of the motherboard to make sure, if you truly need it connected.

But IIRC when first incompability issues with Asus and NEO HE were first discovered I think the first question/advice from both asus and antec was to connect the 4pin cable.