New AMD AM2 socket makes 939 heatsinks incompatible :(

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Live
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New AMD AM2 socket makes 939 heatsinks incompatible :(

Post by Live » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:03 am

According to AnandTech the new socket from AMD, coming this summer, uses a new mounting scheme for heatsinks. So the old 754, 940, and 939 heatsinks will not work in the new socket.

I just upgraded my system with the intent of moving over most of the stuff to the new socket. So I spent little on the CPU, motherboard and memory and splurged on the other components. I should have known the system would want to punish me for trying to be smart/cheap :)

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Post by McBanjo » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:25 am

There might be some addons for heatsinks when AM2 is coming out, atleast I would hope so.
Depending on what heatsink you have you might be able to create a new holding thingy for it to fit the new socket. Modd the stuff :-P

Rather annoying they cant keep their present system tho.
Luckily I have my brother working with metal so he'll fix it if needed, for free ;-)

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Post by mb2 » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:51 am

any idea if they are likely to be many BTX motherboards either?... or if AMD are gonna just leave that one..

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Post by BillyBuerger » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:08 am

mb2 wrote:any idea if they are likely to be many BTX motherboards either?... or if AMD are gonna just leave that one..
I believe that would be up to the motherboard manufactures, not AMD.

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Post by Tzupy » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:52 am

It would be a bad idea to buy a socket AM2 mobo at launch, since the BIOSes are going to be buggy (they always are at launch). Wait 2-3 months until the BIOSes get bug-free updates and by then there should be several HSFs that support the new socket.

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Post by McBanjo » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:01 am

BillyBuerger wrote:
mb2 wrote:any idea if they are likely to be many BTX motherboards either?... or if AMD are gonna just leave that one..
I believe that would be up to the motherboard manufactures, not AMD.
Yes and no, they will most likely not do any motherboards in BTX unless AMD demands it. Possibly if enought customers demands it as well
Tzupy wrote:It would be a bad idea to buy a socket AM2 mobo at launch, since the BIOSes are going to be buggy (they always are at launch). Wait 2-3 months until the BIOSes get bug-free updates and by then there should be several HSFs that support the new socket.
Getting a new HSF costs money. Why buy a new one if you have a good old one? Getting newe things isn't a problem, it's keeping the old stuff that is :-P

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Post by MikeC » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:28 am

It looks like most aftermarket HS can be easily adapted to the new 4-bolt HS retention bracket. It would be very simple to adapt socket 478 hardware HS (like the Scythe Ninja or Thermalright 120/90), slightly more complex for A64 2-bolt HS like the Zalman 7000/7700.
Last edited by MikeC on Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by anaqer » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:28 am

McBanjo wrote:Why buy a new one if you have a good old one?
Because the 'good old one' may not be good enough anymore...? Keeping in mind the (supposedly quite a bit) higher TDPs for the M2 processors, I don't think you'll really want to hold on to whatever you have at the moment.

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Post by jaganath » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:37 am

Keeping in mind the (supposedly quite a bit) higher TDPs for the M2 processors, I don't think you'll really want to hold on to whatever you have at the moment.
Why would you get an M2 processor if the TDP is worse and the performance not much better than current S939 procs?

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Post by Mats » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:12 am

MikeC wrote:It would be very simple to adapt socket 478 hardware HS (like the Scythe Ninja or Thermalright 120/90), slightly more complex for A64 2-bolt HS like the Zalman 7000/7700.
I'd expect something like this from Zalman, but yeah the other two will probably make one big bracket as usual.

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Post by McBanjo » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:57 am

anaqer wrote:
McBanjo wrote:Why buy a new one if you have a good old one?
Because the 'good old one' may not be good enough anymore...? Keeping in mind the (supposedly quite a bit) higher TDPs for the M2 processors, I don't think you'll really want to hold on to whatever you have at the moment.
Then it isn't good old one, just old one ;-)
Assuming it still works and still is good. Doubt Ninja will have trouble handling that extra heat for example.
Not sure TDP will go up since they'll be using a smaller manufactoring technic (45nm?). I'm guessing tho. It'll probibly go up some but that might cancel out some of the raise of TDP
jaganath wrote:Why would you get an M2 processor if the TDP is worse and the performance not much better than current S939 procs?
Performance in the CPU will rise and you'll be using DDR2 so thats some performance as well. Don't know if you gain anything else in the socket itself. Probibly tho

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Post by mb2 » Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:15 pm

to be fair.. dont most people keep their hsf on their old computer?.. unless u part it out and sell everything individually.. or have the retail hsf to put back on. (i suppose i half answered my own question.. but people did used to buy oem cpus more..)

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Post by Live » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:11 am

mb2 wrote:to be fair.. dont most people keep their hsf on their old computer?.. unless u part it out and sell everything individually.. or have the retail hsf to put back on. (i suppose i half answered my own question.. but people did used to buy oem cpus more..)
I don't. When I upgrade I move what ever I have that still is good enough over. I sell the old parts. Why keep more computers? The sound would be unbearable :twisted:

Besides this year I plan to upgrade for sure as I expect either the new Intel platform or the new AMD platform to be something you really want. Call me optimistic...
Last edited by Live on Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mats » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:44 am

Live wrote:Besides this year I plan to upgrade for sure as I expect either the new Intel platform or the new AMD platform to be something you really want. Call me optimistic...
Yeah that's the big question, Intel or AMD? I have this feeling about Intel will be the best of the two, says AMD fanboy Mats. At least I don't expect AMD to be much better than Intel. But who knows what AMD will come up with? Too early to tell yeah I know. A64G will be very interesting. What do we call the new Conroe/Merom/Woodcrest chips? I've heard P8 somewhere but I'm not sure.

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Post by Erssa » Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:12 am

Mats wrote:
Live wrote:Besides this year I plan to upgrade for sure as I expect either the new Intel platform or the new AMD platform to be something you really want. Call me optimistic...
Yeah that's the big question, Intel or AMD? I have this feeling about Intel will be the best of the two, says AMD fanboy Mats. At least I don't expect AMD to be much better than Intel. But who knows what AMD will come up with? Too early to tell yeah I know. A64G will be very interesting. What do we call the new Conroe/Merom/Woodcrest chips? I've heard P8 somewhere but I'm not sure.
I think Merom and Conroe have been seriously hyped and because of that people will probably be dissapointed. Imo AMD will have the lead on the desktop market even after 2006, laptos on the other hand are a whole different ball game...

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Post by Mats » Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:25 am

Erssa wrote:I think Merom and Conroe have been seriously hyped and because of that people will probably be dissapointed. Imo AMD will have the lead on the desktop market even after 2006, laptos on the other hand are a whole different ball game...
Not so sure about that, look what PM and even more CD can achieve in some areas even though they're low power mobile CPU's. To me it's not obvious which one of them that will take the lead. Let's wait and see. :D

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Post by Erssa » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:39 am

Mats wrote:
Erssa wrote:I think Merom and Conroe have been seriously hyped and because of that people will probably be dissapointed. Imo AMD will have the lead on the desktop market even after 2006, laptos on the other hand are a whole different ball game...
Not so sure about that, look what PM and even more CD can achieve in some areas even though they're low power mobile CPU's. To me it's not obvious which one of them that will take the lead. Let's wait and see. :D
Core Duo is pretty much equal to X2 in clock per clock comparison, the difference is that AMD scales much higher. Price of CD T2600 (2.16ghz) is close to 700$, more then X2 4800+. AMD will most likely remain price/performance leader, since it ain't waiting on its tracks for Intel to catch up. Which is better will of course depend a lot on how much a person values the lower power usage/heat output vs. the price/performance.

Which ever ends up better the choise of processor/platform isn't going to as easy task as it is has been for the past couple of years.

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Post by stupid » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:05 am

McBanjo wrote:
anaqer wrote:
McBanjo wrote:Why buy a new one if you have a good old one?
Because the 'good old one' may not be good enough anymore...? Keeping in mind the (supposedly quite a bit) higher TDPs for the M2 processors, I don't think you'll really want to hold on to whatever you have at the moment.
Then it isn't good old one, just old one ;-)
Assuming it still works and still is good. Doubt Ninja will have trouble handling that extra heat for example.
Not sure TDP will go up since they'll be using a smaller manufactoring technic (45nm?). I'm guessing tho. It'll probibly go up some but that might cancel out some of the raise of TDP
jaganath wrote:Why would you get an M2 processor if the TDP is worse and the performance not much better than current S939 procs?
Performance in the CPU will rise and you'll be using DDR2 so thats some performance as well. Don't know if you gain anything else in the socket itself. Probibly tho
It is too soon for a 45nm processor. Intel states they are on track for a 45nm launch in 2008. AMD hasn't even produced a commerically available 65nm CPU yet, and they typically lag behind Intel by about 9 months to a year. Therefore, a 45nm AMD CPU will probably not see the light of day until 2009.

With regards to AMD 65nm processor, there seems to be conflicting reports as to when they will be release. One news article I've read stated Q2 2006, but the next day another article claims that a 65nm Athlon will not come out until at least Q3 this year.

Regarding the performance of AM2, there have been many articles stating that initially there will not be any performance increase until faster DDR2 RAM becomes available either late this year or early 2007. In addition, higher clocked CPUs are not expected to come out until next year.

My suggestion for anyone who wants to switch to the new socket is to wait for revised motherboards to come out first because Revision 1.0 typically has bugs. That will be at least a 3 month wait. At that point it may be worth waiting just a little while longer for the 65nm Athlons to come out. Then you might as well wait for the faster DDR2 RAM to come out.

In the end, if you want to see a performance and/or TDP improvement over the current generation of Athlons, you'll need to play the waiting game until all the right components are available.

-----

EDIT: Updated to correct 2 spelling errors. I wish there was a spellcheck option.
Last edited by stupid on Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Sizzle » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:13 am

BillyBuerger wrote:
mb2 wrote:any idea if they are likely to be many BTX motherboards either?... or if AMD are gonna just leave that one..
I believe that would be up to the motherboard manufactures, not AMD.
With Intel's shift in focus from raw megahertz, is there a reason for BTX? You don't see a big push by anyone to go to it.

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Post by Mats » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:15 am

Erssa wrote:
Mats wrote:
Erssa wrote:I think Merom and Conroe have been seriously hyped and because of that people will probably be dissapointed. Imo AMD will have the lead on the desktop market even after 2006, laptos on the other hand are a whole different ball game...
Not so sure about that, look what PM and even more CD can achieve in some areas even though they're low power mobile CPU's. To me it's not obvious which one of them that will take the lead. Let's wait and see. :D
Core Duo is pretty much equal to X2 in clock per clock comparison, the difference is that AMD scales much higher. Price of CD T2600 (2.16ghz) is close to 700$, more then X2 4800+.
But then again, T2300 and T2400 are cheaper than a X2 3800+. I wasn't talking about price, since it's almost impossible to compare desktop and mobile CPU's, especially since there's no competition for the CD at the moment and it won't be the next coming months. They are not comparable, and I said the CD was impressive in some areas, suggesting that Conroe will be better. AMD's next move with DDR2 doesn't look that good to me, but I guess they have more things to come up with this year.

AMD scales much higher just because they're desktop CPU's, no TDP's are stopping them. But the CD will reach 3 GHz in real world at best just like A64. Personally I don't pay for MHz, I pay for a certain kind of CPU. I can get the MHz myself.

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Post by jmke » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:41 am

I reviewed a cooler which boasts socket AM2 compatibility: http://www.madshrimps.be/gotoartik.php?articID=398

check out the mounting; all coolers which use the CLIPS system like the stock cooling (Freezer / HR-01 / etc..) will work fine with the new socket.

also I won't be too surprised to see a slightly changed mounting bracket which allows all others coolers to be installed on the new AMD CPU too.

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Post by TooNice » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:12 pm

Umm, I am building a new system. As much as I am tempted by the Scythe Ninja, would it be better if I stick with the stock cooler (since I am building a retail chip anyway), until newer coolers/AM2 compatible revisions of the coolers are released?).

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:34 pm

building one now means no AM2 so no need for the wait!!

Don't expect anything more than 10% increase in gaming speed or anything speed.

I just do not foresee it. ddr2 means more bandwidth, something amd chips dont really care about. Compare my 754 kv8 pro at 2.0ghz to a 939 nforce4 sli ultra whatever chipset on dual channel, the game frames are very close!

sad but true. AM2 is a thing so that M$ can insure that you dont have a pirated copy of windows. "security" they call it, more bloat, more crap.

who the hell wants virtualization? I just want one OS that works smoothly, I dont think I will be simultaneously dual booting. Talk about upcomming gimick wars for processors.

Maybe the Cell will do something cool for all of us, something different. shrugs.

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Post by Tibors » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:56 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:who the hell wants virtualization?
I do. I'm not going to upgrade any of my systems till CPU's with virtualisation get affordable.

Running a database&webserver on *nix and a windows client on the same machine at the same time is pretty nice during development. Qemu, Bochs and Xen currently all have too much limitations for me.

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Post by jaganath » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:00 am

Maybe the Cell will do something cool for all of us, something different
The Cell :?: What's that?

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Post by Mats » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:13 am

jaganath wrote:
Maybe the Cell will do something cool for all of us, something different
The Cell :?: What's that?
It's a new CPU, it will be used in Sony P(l)aystation 3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

The "(microprocessor)" should be in the URL, dunno why it gets excluded. Copy and paste the whole line above.

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Post by jaganath » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:10 am

Wow, that looks tremendously exciting- from this IBM presentation, it mentions clock speeds in excess of 4GHz and on the second to last page:
New levels of performance and power efficiency beyond what is achieved by PC processors
What are the odds of this migrating to the desktop? Pretty high, I expect/ hope!

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Post by anaqer » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:39 pm

jaganath wrote:Wow, that looks tremendously exciting-
I agree with what you wrote.

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Post by mellon » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:06 pm

The cell will most likely not be relevant for desktop computing as it is not really a general-purpose processor. Any data from IBM is likely to be heavily biased.

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Post by jaganath » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:44 pm

I agree with what you wrote.
OK, I know what you're really trying to say is "It's cr@p and I already know why", so why don't you go ahead and explain why the Cell will be a disappointment rather than this kind of cryptic comment.
Any data from IBM is likely to be heavily biased.
Can you give me a remotely plausible reason why a PhD would lie in a presentation intended solely for University of Texas electronics students? :roll:

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