65nm X2 3600+

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:09 am

About CnQ, I guess it wasn't working.

Had it enabled in the BIOS and assumed Vista would support and automatically use it, but I guess not. Find it hard to believe that CnQ Vista drivers aren't available, but can't seem to find any for now, so undervolting will have to wait.

However, the system does seem to be pretty easy on power even at 1.9GHz 1.3V. At idle it uses about 52w from the wall, and load (2x Prime95) jumps up to 81w. Not too bad I guess, but it's also a pretty basic setup. 6100 onboard video, a single hard drive, etc.

Mariner · Post by **Mariner** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:53 am

Frankly, nothing surprises me as regards Vista drivers - seems a half-arsed launch to me for such a major upgrade in the OS, especially when 64-bit drivers are still nothing near standard.

Strange that AMD haven't released specific Vista support yet, especially when you see the "AMD and Vista" blurb on the front page of their web site.

Saribro · Post by **Saribro** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:34 am

frostedflakes wrote:Had it enabled in the BIOS and assumed Vista would support and automatically use it, but I guess not.

AFAIK all you have to do is select the appropriate power profile (Minimal Power Use, IIRC). I've read CnQ should work right out of the box if you select the correct profile.

[EDIT]
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums ... id=2858088
Might prove usefull to get it tweaked to your wishes.

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:14 am

Mariner wrote:Frankly, nothing surprises me as regards Vista drivers - seems a half-arsed launch to me for such a major upgrade in the OS, especially when 64-bit drivers are still nothing near standard.

Strange that AMD haven't released specific Vista support yet, especially when you see the "AMD and Vista" blurb on the front page of their web site.

My thoughts exactly. AMD and Vista huh? Where are the drivers?

Saribro: Vista power management is a bit different than XP. I already went into the advanced power settings but couldn't find any option for CPU power management.

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:48 pm

Well, I'm an idiot.

Looks like you were right Saribro, Vista supports CnQ out of the box. I had the CnQ option set to auto in the BIOS and assumed it was working, but I had to set it to enabled instead. Now I'm idling at 1.0GHz 1.1V. Power consumption has dropped to ~41w.

Will try some undervolting, but RMClock doesn't seem to recognize the 3600+, so it might not work. May have to wait until it officially supports Brisbane.

=assassin= · Post by **=assassin=** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:11 am

How are the tests going?!!

line · Post by **line** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:07 am

frostedflakes wrote:Will try some undervolting, but RMClock doesn't seem to recognize the 3600+, so it might not work. May have to wait until it officially supports Brisbane.

It seems your motherboard provides vcore control in BIOS. Have you looked into it? The manual is not explicit about the range, but I guess it would be at 0.8 - 1.55 (that is the range in AM2NF4G-SATA2 and ALiveNF4G-DVI).

http://www.asrock.com/manual/AM2NF6G-VSTA.pdf (p. 31-32)

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:59 pm

Sorry it took so long guys. The system has been running cool and quiet enough for me, so undervolting hasn't been a huge priority.

But after a bit more research, I have discovered that RMClock 2.2 does in fact support Brisbane. You have to enable half FIDs in RMClock, and oddly enough actual Vcore seems to be approx 0.1V higher than its RMClock setting, but it still works (and RMClock has settings down to 0.7V, so it is possible to obtain an actual Vcore of 0.800V, although I would get crashes even at idle with such a low voltage).

This chip is an excellent undervolter, though. I haven't done any long term testing, but it didn't seem to have any problem with dual Prime95 for a few hours at 0.975V actual. This is at the full 1.9GHz, which is very impressive IMHO. Will dig out the power meter some time and measure load power consumption.

Until then, however, we can make some assumptions. This undervolt should correspond to a power consumption roughly 56% of the original. Assuming the processor has a full load power consumption of 50w (which is just a number I've pulled out of my rear, but seems reasonable, if anything a bit pessimistic; it's probably a bit lower, 40-45w) you're looking at a sub 35w processor, more like 28w. Not too bad at all for less than $100 now I'd say. If you want the best bang for your buck C2D is probably the best bet, as they can overclock like crazy without needing a lot of volts (although I am not going to bother overclocking the X2 3600+, based on what I've read they have a decent headroom at stock volts, but don't hold a candle to C2D in this department). If you just want dual core performance at a low cost and without a lot of heat, this processor is for you.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:52 pm

I hope you give it a try passive with a Ninja (or Gemini if you have a door fan) I'm especially curious about how minimal this can go in terms of case fan+psu fan rpms.

What second hand info I stumble on has tended to say the AMD's,from Sempron to X2, run cool,relative to whatever HS,fan rpm is employed,and while Core 2 ought to match ot top that..it does not always seem the case.

I' like to see a relatively standard silent setup,passive Ninja/120mm @ 800rpm/Seasonic PSU with temps in that type layout. I have seen hints the 3600 runs as much as 15-20% cooler than the 90 nm 3800.
I factor in that the 3600 X2 and a decent mobo about equals the $ of a 4300 core2,which is significant if the 3600 X2 is all the power I need.
Actually,a Sempy or Venice 3000 would do my needs-but the dual-core feature should have an edge often.

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:11 pm

I used to have a similar setup (passive Ninja, D12SL-12 exhaust @ 5V, Seasonic 120mm) that handled an X2 3800+ 90nm @ 1.23V no problem, so an undervolted X2 3600+ 65nm should work very well. IIRC the 3800+ would load at around 50*C.

And my reason for purchasing the X2 3600+ was the same as yours. E4300 or E6300 both have more power than I really need. Difficult to justify the extra cost in this situation. I just wanted the multitasking advantage of dual core at the lowest possible cost. Plus I think I am kind of an AMD fanboy at heart.

derekva · Post by **derekva** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:44 pm

Mariner wrote:Frankly, nothing surprises me as regards Vista drivers - seems a half-arsed launch to me for such a major upgrade in the OS, especially when 64-bit drivers are still nothing near standard.

Strange that AMD haven't released specific Vista support yet, especially when you see the "AMD and Vista" blurb on the front page of their web site.

If hardware manufacturers don't have their sh*t together with regard to Vista drivers, how is this Microsoft's fault (which is what you seem to be implying here)? Seems like the blame should rest on the shoulders of the manufacturer (AMD, NVidia, Creative Labs, HP, Intel, etc.). The kernel for Vista, especially with regard to the hardware layer, was well defined and stable for a long time before Vista released.

Just my $0.02.

-Derek

bendit · Post by **bendit** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:11 pm

amd motherboards are hit and miss with C n Q support under Vista. My asus MVP does Not support it yet. Remains to be seen if Asus intends to fix it in a new bios.

Mariner · Post by **Mariner** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:24 am

derekva wrote:If hardware manufacturers don't have their sh*t together with regard to Vista drivers, how is this Microsoft's fault (which is what you seem to be implying here)? Seems like the blame should rest on the shoulders of the manufacturer (AMD, NVidia, Creative Labs, HP, Intel, etc.). The kernel for Vista, especially with regard to the hardware layer, was well defined and stable for a long time before Vista released.

Just my $0.02.

-Derek

The counterpoint to your argument is that, if MS are totally blameless, why is it that practically every other company around is lacking decent support for Vista be it software incompatibilities or lack of drivers? I know that Vista supports a new graphics driver model which perhaps goes some way to explaining why ATI/NVidia/etc. are struggling but I can't help but feel that perhaps MS haven't provided enough support for other companies.

Personally, it's irrelevant to me as there is nothing new in Vista which I require at present and my WinXP installation is working just fine as it is. I'm also a bit wary about the somewhat draconian DRM for media built into Vista which leaves 'fair use' of your system entirely in the hands of the corporations.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:35 am

A lot of the bells and whistles Vista is supposed to bring--mean zip to me.
I went from W98 to W2k to XP and I still use "classic" so it looks and acts the same. XP and Win 2K obviously have some differences,but are minor. Both are more durable than 98 which would need a frequent re-install. I could see getting XP media center for it's video goodies. Vista? I'll wait.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:33 am

For those interested, the X2 3600+ Brisbane is actually available at NCIX for $110. It was vapourware in Canada for a loooong time...

Poodle · Post by **Poodle** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:09 am

I bought one for my brother to his birthday. I hope it can perform well at 1,4V. Gonna check it out this weekend.

65nm X2 3600+

Not the fault of MS...

Re: Not the fault of MS...