What 780G/785G motherboards offer dynamic VRM enabling?

madman2003 · Post by **madman2003** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:29 pm

I'm eying a 785G AM3 motherboard (in a few months probably), but these often come with 4, 5 or 8 phase cpu VRMs. I'm wondering which offer bios/hw driven VRM switching for optimal power usage (especially idle). It won't be running windows, so special software is not an option. Most of the reviews and information seem to focus on intel boards and the features of most amd variants are rather vaguely defined.

So does anyone know which manufacturers/boards offer these features?

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:09 am

Gigabyte calls this DES, Asus EPU, and MSI DrMOS. I have read many conflicting things about whether any of these are at all useful. These are feature families that include dynamic voltage and clocking as well as VRM phases, so exactly which features you get on a given board probably need detailed research.

madman2003 · Post by **madman2003** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:25 am

DrMos seems to be a bios/hw feature.

Biostar also has something which seems bios settable.

I'm not a 100% sure about EPU or DES.

The main question is if EPU and DES are "always work" technologies.

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:05 am

FWIW, MSI's 785G board previewed here doesn't have DrMOS but another preview shows it as having Active Phase Switching "For ANY OS".

DrMOS does well on Intel platform, but not sure how it goes on AMD. With this board at least, it's not available. The reason why reviewers and manufacturers for that matter focus more attention on Intel is because they are "the market leader" (whether we like it or not, someone has to be), more people use it and they sell the most. As an underdog fan, I don't particulary like Intel the Overfed Greedy Giant but I acknowledge their competence and ability to make more often than not stable, reliable and high performing products, albeit at premium prices most of the time.

A fact of computing life we have to deal with is that AMD products and therefore AMD users get the short end of the stick. But AMD making Intel look stupid at the lower end of the market continues to make things at least interesting, considering many people don't want to spend much on a computer anymore after they've spent $2000 on fast food and "entertainment" last month and the month before that and the month...
... as well as buying a TV big enough to walk into, paid for by borrowing off the house's mortgage or on "interest free" finance with strings attached.

With AMD coming up with some decent products other than at the bottom of the barrel, we also avoid an evil monopoly, which is supposedly against the "American Way".

BTW I hate monopolies. Even duopolies. Even triopolies.

loimlo · Post by **loimlo** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:46 am

I'm not sure about 785G, but all the Gigabytes AMD platform boards on the market are only armed with software only DESâ€”adjusting CPU's vocre based on loadingâ€”regardless of price or chipset vendors. There's no phase change at all in the hardware level. Does it sound very familiar to something else?

I wouldn't hold my breath for Gigabyte's 785G anyway. I dislike Gigabyte's 780G's awkward SATA placements, not to mention 785G.

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:31 am

loimlo wrote:I'm not sure about 785G, but all the Gigabytes AMD platform boards on the market are only armed with software only DESâ€”adjusting CPU's vocre based on loadingâ€”regardless of price or chipset vendors. There's no phase change at all in the hardware level. Does it sound very familiar to something else?

Does that mean MSI has one up on GB, as it appears they have implemented A.P.S.? I think MSI has been less than impressive in the past (understatement), but they seem to recognise that, as those links I posted suggest. They've toned down their carton artwork too: no more monsters, aliens, robots etc--at least on this series. Board components look to have improved too. NO ONE should be using old style capacitors anymore. Thanks to GB for leading the way.

loimlo wrote:I wouldn't hold my breath for Gigabyte's 785G anyway. I dislike Gigabyte's 780G's awkward SATA placements, not to mention 785G.

Gigabyte wins in the eyes of many because of complete package, albeit for sometimes premium price. Many same chipset boards can be bought for far less, but have significant shortcomings. Others can be more expensive, and don't offer anything worthhwile apart from enthusiast oriented BIOS and superfluous performance features.

If Gigabyte can tone down the use of red, orange, yellow and green in combination on their boards, I will be more happy. Colours by themselves or in pairs can be okay, but in combination all at once, can give me a headache and cause anxiety.

loimlo · Post by **loimlo** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:42 am

I have no experience with MSI's A.P.S on AMD platform, so I can't comment on it. But the similar GreenPower function on Intel platform was the most effective phase changing mechanism among the MB makers. I've measured 10~15W less with GP on under load compared to GP off in the bios. As for Gigabyte's DES, it was the most troublesome setting, least effective phase changing solution on the Intel platform as I only measured 3W less with DES on under load in comparison with DES off. Anyway, I plan on purchasing MSI 770T-C45 for a friend's computer, and I will contribute results to SPCR forum members.

When it comes to 785G's awkward SATA placements, I think Gigabyte should have corrected this layout defect from the ground up. By contrast, MSI, Asrock has recently released several MATX boards with proper SATA placements. I believe Gigabyte has the ability to correct this fatal problem when using high-end display card such as GTX285, 4870, but they still resist evolution if not revolution. At least, rework your 740G layout, Gigabyte!

chrispitude · Post by **chrispitude** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am

So what VRM conclusions can we draw from this article:

"AMD's 785G Chipset Boards: 780G Evolved"
http://www.silentpcreview.com/amd785g

given that the MSI board idles 12W less than the Asus board (44W versus 56W)? The MSI board is a 4+1 phase design, versus Asus' 8+2 phase design. Can that equate to a 12W idle power difference?

The Gigabyte 785G boards are also a 4+1 design too, and I've seen low idle power numbers (34W!) reported by BillyBuerger:

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- Chris