Seasonic gets first 80 Plus certification

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:56 pm

This item posted as news on the front page seems worth discussing, given how SPCR has been focused on high efficiency right from the first PSU reviews.

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:54 pm

It looks like a great initiative, I hope it takes off with the other PSU vendors and raises the profile of energy efficient PSUs. After all it's a win-win situation for everyone.

Now we have to do the same for these and the people that drive them (the truck I mean!

)

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:16 pm

Perhaps this program will bring Fortron's "Green" PSUs to North Am.

Green Shoes · Post by **Green Shoes** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:53 pm

Nifty organization, first I've heard of it. What do you think the odds are that the manufacturers will pass those $5-$10 savings on to us?

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:09 pm

Hard to say exactly how the program will evolve. As this Seasonic is the first "qualifying" PSU, it simply has not been implemented before. And AFAIK, the SS400HT APFC is not available in the US at this time. It might be a brand new model. So there are no test cases. The program is definitely geared to system builders, tho, not end users, so it's their choice.

One question is what happens if/when retail models pass the 80 Plus test? AFAIK, Seasonic has also submitted the SS-500HT and SS-600HT for testing, and if the 400 passed, these surely will. These models are available right now in the US as the S12-500 and S12-600 in retail packaging. (I've been informed that the lower power S12 series are not based on the same circuit design.)

At the Intel Developers Forum Mar 1-3, I've signed up for a session that is led by the technical director of the 80 Plus program and the man at Intel who writes their PSU design guides (ATX12V, etc...). They will be discussing this program, Intel's push for higher efficiency, etc. AND I have interviews already scheduled with both. Hopefully, I will be able to pull a report together on all this around mid-March.

Green Shoes · Post by **Green Shoes** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:24 pm

Yeah, keep us up-to-date, from all I can tell from their website the Ecos company that's behind this has much loftier goals than just power supplies, but I think that's great....cool stuff on there nonetheless (I thought this article was particularly eye-opening, I'll be hunting through my house this weekend.

Stupid noob question: what is a "true power factor"?

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:32 pm

I'm frankly very puzzled by this development.

As far as I can tell from reading 80 Plus's website, they give the manufacturer a rebate for every unit sold.

The SS-400HT is not sold in the U.S. In fact, I'm not sure if it is sold at all. Googling for it returned 5 pages, most of them related to the 80 Plus certification.

Why would there be two separate lines for 120mm fanned PSUs from Seasonic? AFAIK the S12 is being sold in Europe.

Now, if I'm really cynical, I would say that giving the certification to a PSU that's not being sold in the US would certainly save them a whole lot of money. But I'm not that cynical so I won't say it.

I hope that 80 Plus will make a real difference in the PSUs being sold in the U.S.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:43 pm

lenny wrote:As far as I can tell from reading 80 Plus's website, they give the manufacturer a rebate for every unit sold.

The mfg of a computer that uses a qualified PSU gets the rebate, not the PSU maker.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:21 am

lenny wrote:The SS-400HT is not sold in the U.S. In fact, I'm not sure if it is sold at all. Googling for it returned 5 pages, most of them related to the 80 Plus certification.

The website of Seasonic USA is almost completely end user oriented. All the products displayed there are retail versions.

Seasonic manufactures and sells a lot of PSU not mentioned on the Seasonic USA website. These "other" products are aimed at commercial clients like system integrators. Coincidentally this is exactly the type of customers the 80 Plus program is aimed at.

I have no doubt that when ARM systems makes an appointment with a representative of Seasonic USA somewhere in the next month, that the SS-400HT will be one of the offered products. But in pallet quantities, not in retail packaging.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:03 am

Tibors wrote:Seasonic manufactures and sells a lot of PSU not mentioned on the Seasonic USA website. These "other" products are aimed at commercial clients like system integrators. Coincidentally this is exactly the type of customers the 80 Plus program is aimed at.

That makes sense. Thanks for enlightening.

The SS-400HT does appear in SeaSonic's web site. But I can see how it might be meant for system integrators only, and sell only the S12 retail.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:11 am

Green Shoes wrote:what is a "true power factor"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

If your question is "what is true power factor vs. power factor" then I have no idea tho I suspect a typo.

Green Shoes · Post by **Green Shoes** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:05 am

Ah, thanks for the link, lenny. It's not a typo, if you check out the 80plus website you'll see where I got that from. Regardless, after reading the wikipedia entry I'm pretty sure you're right; they're the same thing.

Everyone on this website is so helpful; I'm donating today

douglas · Post by **douglas** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:21 pm

I don't know if there is a typo on their site, but on the consumer notes, it states that a better power supply can change the eff. in the ac-dc from 60-70% up to over 80%, and states some kWh numbers per year after that. But then it says this is a savings of $25-$30 over the lifetime of the computer.

That can't be right, if I saw $30 savings over 3-5 years of a computer in use, I would say this isn't that big a deal, and people should be buying cheaper power supplies.

I'm sure they mean more saving than that, but what numbers do they mean? I mean what would it be really...

Green Shoes · Post by **Green Shoes** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:50 pm

This translates to annual savings of approximately 85 kWh/year in desktop PCs and 300 kWh/year in desktop-derived servers.

Where I live power is only 6.5 cents a KWh, so it's only a savings of $5.20 a year for me; I think those numbers are accurate. What is more applicable for SPCR folks is that a higher-efficiency PSU produces less heat. A theoretical 100% efficiency PSU would produce no heat, as energy is not being lost in the AC/DC conversion.

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:04 pm

douglas wrote:I'm sure they mean more saving than that, but what numbers do they mean? I mean what would it be really...

Maybe they don't mean more savings.

Let's say the typical office PC uses 80 watts DC. With a 65%-efficient PSU, that's ~125W AC, and for an 80%-efficient PSU it's 100W. So a 25W savings.

Multiply that over 9 hours per day, 5 days a week, and you have 1.125kWh. Over 5 years with the PC in use 50 out of 52 weeks, you save 281kWh over the (long) life of the PC. If your electricity is 11 cents per kWh, that's $31 saved.

A different scenario: a computer on, 24/7, running folding@home. A server would fit the same mold. Now it's using 100W DC, and we save 40W by switching power supplies. We save 350kWh/year that way, and the PSU pays for itself after a couple of years. Prescott owners save 550kWh/year.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:53 pm

Lets make some assumptions.

A typical computer draws 100Watt DC.
US price $0.08/kWh.
Dutch price €0.14/kWh.
Servers or Folding computers run 24/7. (=8.760 hours/year)
A typical office machine runs 9 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. (=2.250 hours/year)
A typical household computer runs 3 hours a day, 7 days a week. (=1.095 hours/year)

Now lets calculate the monetary gain per year by using an 80% efficient PSU over a junk PSU (60% efficient)
and the monetary gainper year by using an 80% efficient PSU over a normal quality PSU (70% efficient).

Code: Select all

 24/7      9/5	   3/7
$29,20   $ 7,50   $3,65   Old PSU had 60% eff.
$12,51 	 $ 3,21   $1,56   Old PSU had 70% eff.
€51,10 	 €13,13   €6,39   Old PSU had 60% eff.
€21,90 	 € 5,63   €2,74   Old PSU had 70% eff.

For servers and office machines that is excluding the power savings the company is going to make for airconditioning. 42W or 18W less heat per computer is going to make a real impact on that. (Ever been in a server room where the airco was broken? You'll melt.)

So corporate buyers should watch this. But home buyers only if they are greens or SPCR addicts.

P.S I seem to be too slow in responding again.
Edit: stupid mistake corrected (cooler/PSU)

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:18 pm

Tibors wrote:P.S I seem to be too slow in responding again.

Well, at least one of us is double-checking the math, my numbers could be junk for all I know.

Corporate buyers are more likely than household buyers to look at the TCO (total cost of ownership) in the first place, so it's just as well that the cost savings are most dramatic for PC's with higher running times.

EricTerminator · Post by **EricTerminator** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:30 am

It's clear that these new PSUs will make us save a few bucks.

But the most important thing is the fact that we try to take care of our Mother Nature.

After all, isn't the Earth priceless ?

See you

Gandalf · Post by **Gandalf** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:43 am

Prices in Belgium are around 0,15-0,20eur (depending on the supplier, of course), so we could save even more

.

Does anyone know of some european dealers which sell these PSUs?

davelister33333 · Post by **davelister33333** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:50 am

Whats the difference between the SS-401HT & SS-400HT ????

regards
Paul

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:20 am

From Seasonic's product page the only obvious differences are a lot of safety certificates are missing from the 400 and the 401 is also availlable for 220V only.

This lets me think there must be a different PCB in the PSU's. But the rails and efficiency are all said to be the same.

Note that these are not the versions that will be availlable for retail. In retail you'll have to choose between SS-380HB and SS-430HB (for that power range).

Post by **Rusty075** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:51 am

Guessing, but the 401 may be the EU version, with the 400 for the rest of the world.