Is Antec Neo HE 430 enough for X1900XTX + CrossFire

rm19 · Post by **rm19** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:44 pm

Do I need to upgrade to the Neo HE 550 if I want to add an X1900 CrossFire board to my X1900XTX? The Neo HE is rated for the full 430 watts at 50C and I learned from this site that real world power draw even for a loaded system is usually less than 300 watts.

My specs:
A64 X2 3800+, 2GB RAM
Antec P150 Case, Asus A8R-MVP CrossFire Motherboard
ATI X1900XTX + [Want to add X1900 CrossFire]
3 hard drives + 1 DVD burner

burebista · Post by **burebista** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:08 pm

On paper at full-load:
2xX1900XTX=242W (~20A from 12V)
A64 X2 3800+ TDP 89W (~7.5A from 12V)
A total of ~28A. Everything else doesn't matter too much.
Antec HeoHE 430 has 32A on +12V. I assume that it will work.

hravn · Post by **hravn** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:43 pm

Harddrives will add a couple of A as well... pretty close to the limit I'd say, but if you already have a Neo HE 430W, try it and see if it works. Then again, it's pretty unlikely that both cores of the X2 and both GFX would be at full load at the same time (unless you are stress testing).

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:15 am

I would say it's not enough, because IIRC NEO HE 430 has only one 6-pin pci-express cable. Psu manufacturers don't put more then 1 connector to <480W psus, since SLI specifications says psus need to be more then 480W. I'm sure to get flamed for saying 430 isn't enough

, but better be safe then sorry.

And WELCOME TO SPCR Rm19!

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:27 am

For expensive equipment like 2 X1900XTs, I would spend the money on a PSU that is certified for SLI like the Seasonic S12 500W.

I'm not sure if ATI has a similar Crossfire certification as nVidia's SLI.

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:51 am

The 1900 uses a whole heck of a lot of power. This is the first time ever I would recomend someone get the 500 or 600. Acording to xbitlabs the x1900xtx uses 120W at full load. Thats alot of power. Go with the 500. I wouldn't even shy away from the 600 cause thats 20 amps just for video cards. If you wanted to run a prescott (why would you) you would be adding another 120W to 12V rail. Thats 30 amps now. According to Newegg, the 430 has 29 amps on the 12V, the 500 has 33 amps, and the 600 has 36 amps. Wow, i would go for the 600. Why not. You are rich anyways.

rm19 · Post by **rm19** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:12 am

Thanks for the kind and helpful words guys. Other forums I asked said I need a minimum of 600 watts, which I don't buy, but I do think it might be pushing it using my current 430. Antec's marketing worked on me (nice box graphics, high quality styling, cool name), so I'll probably pickup a Neo HE 550 as it has two PCI Express connectors for SLI eventually. It doesn't hurt that it's such a quiet power supply either.

Thanks Erssa for the nice welcome!

TomZ · Post by **TomZ** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:55 pm

Forget the Antec marketing, and go for product quality! Get the Seasonic instead. Advantages of the Seasonic:

1. 120mm fan vs. 80mm fan (quieter)
2. Fan mounted inside of case, pushing air into PSU, instead of mounted at outside of case (quieter)
3. Seasonic has a superior fan controller (quieter)

Also, when I researched PSUs, I put in several support requests to both Seasonic and Antec. I got rude, crappy support from Antec. But from Seasonic, I got friendly, helpful answers.

Also, I didn't like that Antec doesn't tell you any details about connectors, e.g., how many PCIe and SATA. That is all clear with Seasonic.

Doomer · Post by **Doomer** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:22 am

TomZ wrote:Forget the Antec marketing, and go for product quality! Get the Seasonic instead. Advantages of the Seasonic:

You forgot one thing. Neo HE's are manufactured by Seasonic =)

TomZ · Post by **TomZ** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:30 am

You forgot one thing. Neo HE's are manufactured by Seasonic

General Motors makes both Chevy and Cadillac. Does that mean they are the same?

My point really is that the two are different products - different designs - different specifications.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:57 am

TomZ wrote:Forget the Antec marketing, and go for product quality! Get the Seasonic instead. Advantages of the Seasonic:

1. 120mm fan vs. 80mm fan (quieter)

Spcr called the 80mm fan really smooth. So I wouldn't call seasonic much quieter.

2. Fan mounted inside of case, pushing air into PSU, instead of mounted at outside of case (quieter)

This also causes more air turbulence (the smooth part again)

3. Seasonic has a superior fan controller (quieter)

Agreed kind of, since psus have different fans, you cannot compare them directly, but seasonic has great fan controller.

Also, when I researched PSUs, I put in several support requests to both Seasonic and Antec. I got rude, crappy support from Antec. But from Seasonic, I got friendly, helpful answers.

I would like to see these posts.

Also, I didn't like that Antec doesn't tell you any details about connectors, e.g., how many PCIe and SATA. That is all clear with Seasonic.

Antec has the information on a .pdf manual. Link is found on the product page. Not that hard to find, but granted it could be listed in the properties of the product. Lucky for us this info can be found from SPCR review of the psu or other reviews in the net.

When you check this article from SPCR and particularly the comparison table between neo430 and s12 500w you can see that S12 is quieter at heavy loads and this psu will be used in a case with crossfire x1900xtx. On the other hand don't expect these VGAs to run smooth and silent while gaming, so the difference between sound levels of the psus may become a moot point. I usually game with speakers on, the difference might be even less noticeable then. These psus will both be pretty quiet at idle. So the choise between the two would be based on possible preferences, for example:

1. Price: Neo HE 550 118$ @ Newegg. S12 500W 129$ (119$ after rebate), so they are pretty equal. Edit: however Neo HE 500 is 99.99$, so it's a win for Antec.
2. Features: Neo HE is modular and has sleeved cables, S12 has braided cables. Win for Neo HE.
3. Reliability: Even early patches of NEO HEs can work with certain motherboards, but when you upgrade and sell it, the buyer could have a incompatible motherboard. So you have to take certain precautions, or else end up with angry customer. While running, there shouldn't be any major differencies in reliability. However this is a win for S12.
4. Silence: A tough call, but a win to S12.
5. Your choise of preference: Clearly the marketing people of Antec have won the OP over

The bling (modular, sleeving) of Antec is sure nice. However, based on pure numbers and function (over the form of Antec) I would probably lean over to S12 instead of Antec on this particular case, crossfire as a deciding factor. However the choise isn't an easy one, and probably both psus would do pretty fine.

rm19 · Post by **rm19** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:51 pm

I purchased a 550 watt Neo HE, installed it right away and it's working perfectly, (like others, though, the warranty seal is broken). After reading more about the Seasonic, after the fact (here and on Tom's Hardware stress test), I would pick the S12 Seasonic 600 watt over the Neo HE 550 watt if they were both on the shelf. But since I'm super impatient and like the convenience of having it right now, I paid cash and brought the Neo HE home.

I really like the way Antec rated its power, 550 watts continuous @ 50C and I have no reason to doubt this claim. Both Neo HE's I've had have been super quiet and stable. Of course, if this thing craps out I'd probably be just as negative towards Antec as many of you are.

SnooP · Post by **SnooP** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:17 pm

For anyone else thinking of such a setup I'd suggest strongly against getting any dual rail PSU, such as seasonic S12 500w/600w etc

Reason? Remember all components except cpu power off 12V1, which is current limited to 20A. Two x1900xtx are already drawing 20A so very likely psu will just turn off if you try to use such a psu. Grab a single or tripple/quad 12V rail psu instead.

Oh and glad it worked out for ya

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:18 pm

SnooP wrote:I'd suggest strongly against getting any dual rail PSU, such as seasonic S12 500w/600w etc

Reason? Remember all components except cpu power off 12V1, which is current limited to 20A. To x1900xtx are already drawing 20A so very likely psu will just turn off if you try to use such a psu. Grab a single or tripple/quad 12V rail psu - the antec neo HE 500w would do very well, assuming no incompatablity, as would ocz powerstream 520w SLI.

Read the sticky about the 12V rails, please.

SnooP · Post by **SnooP** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:27 pm

hmm i'm not following you?

from dual 12V sticky:

MikeC wrote:What the above means is that you don't need to worry about imbalances in power draw on the 12V lines —as long as no single rail is asked to deliver more than 20A.

What i'm getting at: 12V1 is asked to deliver more than 20A due to two x1900xt in crossfire + hard drives + everything else but cpu.

Also from extremeoverclocking, almost every psu dedicates 12V2 entirely to the cpu, with HEC acepower 480w being a notable exception.
http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/arti ... ing_6.html

TomZ · Post by **TomZ** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:06 pm

Read the sticky about the 12V rails, please.

You can read the stickies all day long, but that doesn't change the fact that if you violate the PSU specifications, you are just asking for trouble. The specifications are like a contract - if you promise to not draw more than X amps from this rail, I promise to keep the rail in regulation, to not overheat, not shorten the life, or whatever.

I think it is not a good idea to give folks advice that contradicts the PSU specifications. So I think in all cases, you should look at the specifications for the particular PSU in question and see what it says. If it says, 12A1 @ 16A and 12A2 @ 16A, then don't plan to pull more than 16A off either. If it says, 12A1 + 12A2 not to exceed a total of 32A (or equivalent watts), then that is the guideline to follow.

PSU designers are not idiots and don't make arbitrary specifications. The limits are there for a reason. Let's advise folks to do things right, to avoid problems later. Let's not make broad generalizations about PSUs in general, because we really don't have that much information at hand.