New Corsair HX450W

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:20 pm

Googly_Eyes wrote:
rpsgc wrote:The thing is, nowadays high wattage sells. It's simply a fact. Too many times I see "enthusiasts" with 850W+ PSU powering rigs that at worse would require a 400W PSU! I don't know whether it's future-proofing, for the ease of mind or simply e-pen but it's happening.
How much more power would high wattage/high efficiency PSUs consume in a low power system; compared to a low wattage/high efficiency PSU in the same low power system?

If the efficiency is the same, they'd consume the same amount of power. If it's lower, obviously a little more. The thing is: An 850W PSU consumes a large amount of your wallet.

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:03 am

rpsgc wrote:The thing is, nowadays high wattage sells. It's simply a fact. Too many times I see "enthusiasts" with 850W+ PSU powering rigs that at worse would require a 400W PSU! I don't know whether it's future-proofing, for the ease of mind or simply e-pen but it's happening.

I think the biggest reason you see enthusiasts with huge power rated power supplies is manufacturers are telling end users thats what they require to run their hardware. When you goto Nvidia's website, they redirect to this PSU Calculator.

For my system it recommends a 500w PSU even though my max power draw at load is only around 150-200w. Most people dont know how to figure out power consumption for themselves though, and rely solely on the manufacturer of their products to inform them of what they need.

I put in a fairly typical SLI gamming platform into the calculator, with 2x 9800GT's which consume around 220w, and a 3ghz C2D with a TDP of 65w. A few case fans, 2 hard drives for raid 0 and an optical drive. In reality the max power draw at load would be around 300-350w, but it recommends an 850w PSU. And presto, the reason why you see so many enthusiasts with a PSU rated that high. It has nothing to do with epeen or future-proofing, its because people are being fed misinformation from the manufacturers.

One last thing, and i stated it earlier. Though you may only "need" a 300-400w PSU, if you actually used a PSU rated at that power level, it would likely be fairly loud at load. So from an SPCR perspective, its a good idea to double your actual system load to get a PSU that will run A. at its typically highest effeciency around 50% load, and B. so that the fan doesnt ramp up and create too much noise.

PSU manufacturers dont make power supplies to run max effeciency at 70-90% load and to run silently. The cost in producing such a product would be just as high as creating a PSU with a higher maximum output.

ronnylov · Post by **ronnylov** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:32 pm

Another thing to consider is that the 80Plus rating is relevant only at a load range from 20% up to 100%. A lower wattage PSU is then approved for more than 80% effeciency at a lower load in Watts. So if you have an 80plus 400W PSU you know by the 80plus certification that at 80 W - 400 W total load on the outputs you will have at least 80% effeciency.

But a 850W 80+ rated PSU is tested for >80% effeciency in the 170 W - 850 W range so if the load is lower than 170W then you are below the lowest 80+ rated load. The PSU may still be effecient also at lower loads but you don't know it unless you can find a review where they have tested lower loads.

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:39 pm

ronnylov wrote:Another thing to consider is that the 80Plus rating is relevant only at a load range from 20% up to 100%. A lower wattage PSU is then approved for more than 80% effeciency at a lower load in Watts. So if you have an 80plus 400W PSU you know by the 80plus certification that at 80 W - 400 W total load on the outputs you will have at least 80% effeciency.

But a 850W 80+ rated PSU is tested for >80% effeciency in the 170 W - 850 W range so if the load is lower than 170W then you are below the lowest 80+ rated load. The PSU may still be effecient also at lower loads but you don't know it unless you can find a review where they have tested lower loads.

a good observation. If you double your estimated load power requirements, your system will fall within the 20-100% margin of 80+ certification.

IE:
150w load. (300w PSU) 80% effeciency range of 60-300w.
300w load. (600w PSU) 80% effeciency range of 120-600w.

xingchen · Post by **xingchen** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:14 pm

I have the hx450w for my new build and I love it!

CocoBryce · Post by **CocoBryce** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:34 pm

It looks like another great psu from corsair, but right now it's kinda expensive. Here in Romania it's priced exactly as the 520HX model.

kaange · Post by **kaange** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:43 pm

Aris wrote: a good observation. If you double your estimated load power requirements, your system will fall within the 20-100% margin of 80+ certification.

IE:
150w load. (300w PSU) 80% effeciency range of 60-300w.
300w load. (600w PSU) 80% effeciency range of 120-600w.

You assume that a system will run at close to 100% loading all the time. This simply isn't the case for the vast majority of PCs. Most spend 95% of their time at idle power levels so if a PSU is chosen to be close to the max system loading, it will be far more likely to be operating in a high efficiency zone while being quiet for the vast majority of operation and only be noisy for a very small amount of time.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:51 pm

kaange wrote:
Aris wrote: a good observation. If you double your estimated load power requirements, your system will fall within the 20-100% margin of 80+ certification.

IE:
150w load. (300w PSU) 80% efficiency range of 60-300w.
You assume that a system will run at close to 100% loading all the time.

I don't see that assumption at all.

150w load is a given max load for a hypothetical PC.

60watts to 300 watts is the range a 300watt Power Supply would be 80% efficient if it had a 80+ rating.

There is nothing in any of those numbers about how often the PC would run at any power level. Just a mention of what the most it would need is and how efficient the PSU would be within a range of wattages.

In short I think you were preaching to the choir.

CocoBryce · Post by **CocoBryce** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:45 am

Prices are dropping for the corsair 450hx which now looks like a great value psu. With only $20 over the price of the 450vx I think this is a pretty good deal.

RaptorX · Post by **RaptorX** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:55 pm

@CocoBryce: Where did you get the price?

merlyn · Post by **merlyn** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:02 pm

I just got a HX450W as a replacement for my 2 year old Phantom 500. Right now it's the loudest component in my system which is rather disappointing. It is very smooth, my noise floor here is very low indeed and I am unusually sensitive to low frequency sounds such as fans, hard drives and coil hum. I suspect for the vast majority of users it will be effectively silent. I particularly like the modular cabling, the inside of my machine is incredibly difficult to manage due to the 9 hd's! (enclosed and suspended)
I don't have my power meter to hand right now but from memory my system should idle just above 100W and load at around 200W. I'll have to measure it again soon though because I made some other changes while swapping out the PSU.
Overall the HX450W seems to be a high quality PSU. My main issue is the double ball bearing fan. I know why they do it and I don't have a better solution for them until someone improves fan design.
My current options are either to void the 7 year warranty and swap the fan for a Slipstream or buy the passive Silverstone. Obviously in this financial climate I'm veering towards the fan swap

I know it's off topic but just quick note on why manufacturers recommend such wildly over-spec'ed PSUs. It's quite simply because the quality of PSUs varies so much. I've seen cheap PSUs marketed on their peak power rating instead of continuous load! Bear in mind that the SPCR audience is a tiny minority ranging from enthusiastic amateurs to engineers of various disciplines, the manufacturers have to cater to a market of mostly clueless civilians who will invariably buy the cheapest PSU they can find. This is also the reason they use double ball bearing fans

m0002a · Post by **m0002a** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:59 am

Not only does Corsair sell good products, they are one the few companies that actually pay mail-in rebates without having to hassle them. I have sent in and received checks for MIR's for 2 Corsair PSU's and 2 sets of Corsair memory. It's nice to deal with an honest company.

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:32 am

merlyn wrote:Overall the HX450W seems to be a high quality PSU. My main issue is the double ball bearing fan. I know why they do it and I don't have a better solution for them until someone improves fan design.
My current options are either to void the 7 year warranty and swap the fan for a Slipstream or buy the passive Silverstone. Obviously in this financial climate I'm veering towards the fan swap

I own the non-modular version VX450. Was the best PSU in my budget that was available to me at the time. Excellent build quality and very quiet, although not as quiet as I had hoped. Definitely better than Antecs which I have previously owned. Was thinking of the HX450 (really did want modular cabling, and didn't need the more powerful HX520) but it wasn't available locally until recently. I'm not keen on voiding any warranties either. Part of the reason I opted for Corsair over the Seasonic S12II-430 was its longer warranty and arguably better components and quality.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:07 am

FYI, previous S12, S12II, M12 and Corsair PSU reviews were all conducted before the anechoic chamber and sound test gear upgrades. Yesterday, I had reason to test an S12 and a Corsair at idle in the anechoic cahmber -- they gave me identical readings: 18 dBA/1m, 850rpm. Most of the >25 dBA readings from pre-chamber measurements are correct, but below 22~23 dBA, not as reliable, and <20 dBA, trust only the anechoic chamber measurements.

The newest generation of quiet PSUs are indeed quieter. They run 12~16 dBA and the fans in these typically run <600rpm. Whether you can hear and appreciate the difference depends, of course, on your ambient and your system components and your own sensitivity.

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:52 pm

Mike, thanks for the info.

It wasn't that long ago that the Corsairs were at or near the top of the bunch. For many who can't source anything else, they are good and quiet enough. 18 dBA/1M at 850RPM is not terrible at all. Yet I'm always looking for something quieter, given that quality and reliability is as good or better than what I'm currently using.

I can definitely hear my VX450 even at its lowest idle state, but I can live with it for now. I don't think I would gain much apart from modular cabling by upgrading to the HX450.

I would definitely try a Nexus Value 430 if they were available where I live. The only thing I might be concerned with in these newest generation PSUs is whether they provide adequate cooling for themselves and system during hot ambient temperatures; seeing that the fan, according to your data in the Nexus review, would be at 370RPM in my system.

Sorry if I should be asking this in the Nexus Value 430 thread/s. If I should, I'll make some comments there also.

loimlo · Post by **loimlo** » Mon May 18, 2009 3:17 am

MikeC wrote:FYI, previous S12, S12II, M12 and Corsair PSU reviews were all conducted before the anechoic chamber and sound test gear upgrades. Yesterday, I had reason to test an S12 and a Corsair at idle in the anechoic cahmber -- they gave me identical readings: 18 dBA/1m, 850rpm. Most of the >25 dBA readings from pre-chamber measurements are correct, but below 22~23 dBA, not as reliable, and <20 dBA, trust only the anechoic chamber measurements.

Thanks for your timely information, MikeC.

I really want to purchase a Nexus Value 430 if it were available here. Sigh. And therefore I've to move to second-tiers like Corsair/Seasonic. Would you mind testing Corsair CX400W? Does the CX400W share the same sound characteristics with VX450W?

Post by **MikeC** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:15 am

loimlo wrote: Does the CX400W share the same sound characteristics with VX450W?

Yes.

I have to point out the the Nexus Value 430, even though it's at the top of our recommended PSU list and the quietest fan-cooled PSU ever, differs from all the other recent <18 dBA PSUs in that it's nowhere near the same efficiency. It's at least one generation behind in efficiency, possibly 2 or 3, as it might not even make 80+. The others, in contrast, are 80+, 80+ bronze, silver, or soon, gold. While the unit seemed to stay cool enough, I personally wouldn't use it with any system that draws more than ~200W AC at any time.

loimlo · Post by **loimlo** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:04 am

Thank you very much, Mike!

I DO lack confidence concerning choice of fan in Nexus Value 430 as I've used L12s's medium version -- M12S. The fan was mediocre nonetheless.

Joe Public · Post by **Joe Public** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:20 pm

jaganath wrote:
We just got a CX400 sample yesterday.
fantastic, i'm really looking forward to that review. I have ordered a CX400 and if it doesn't get the SPCR seal of approval then it's going straight back to the shop.

It might have been mentioned elsewhere, but didn't the CX400 qualify for review?

Nil Einne · Post by **Nil Einne** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:21 pm

Indeed I too am wondering what happened to the CX400 and HX450 review samples. Blew up and killed two systems? Fan was so noisy it made the reviewer deaf? Still waiting review? Never actually arrived?

lodestar · Post by **lodestar** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:02 pm

There's quite a good (UK) review on the CX400 here
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/psus/2 ... u-review/1

burebista · Post by **burebista** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:05 pm

A thorough review for CX400 at Hardware Secrets.

blackworx · Post by **blackworx** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:20 am

Have just bought an HX450W and am very pleased with it. The easiest way to sum it up is "Seasonic Plus". The fan has quite a large hub with the same markings as an S-Flex and is very smooth. Even running open-bench for a while, with it sitting directly on my desk with no damping, it was easy to live with.

I saw a review of the CX400 recently in a UK enthusiast magazine as part of a roundup, where they stated: "400W isn't enough to run an overclocked high end system". No qualification, no doubt, no comeback. 400W isn't enough, period. Sorry guys, even if that were true, given the choice I'd rather have a 400W Seasonic-made supply in there than some "5/600W" PoS costing the same or less.