80+ Gold = very quiet ??

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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guermantes
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80+ Gold = very quiet ??

Post by guermantes » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:25 am

Hi,
I am just starting out on my first adventure in building a computer, and I want it to be fairly silent so that I can enjoy Chopin without hearing the computer.

So let's start with the basics. I am thinking of getting a Fractal Design Define R3 case but the choosing of PSU is proving difficult. I read here in a review that "it's not easy to be a star power supply at SPCR these days. The high struttin' 80 Plus Gold models dominate the top, and only other goldies can hope to join their ranks. The noise level has dropped literally into silence, with Gold and fanless models making no noise at all.".

Does this mean that I will get a very quiet PSU as long as I pick on the has a 80+ Gold rating?
I am thinking primarily about one of these:
  • Corsair Professional Series Gold AX850
    OCZ Z Series 850W
    or maybe if I can find a 750W, but I don't intend to go SLI until in at least two years so I won't really need 850W.
Thanks!

gvblake22
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Post by gvblake22 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:55 pm

You can't compare 80 Plux Gold power supplies without inlcuding the Seasonic X series. They even have fanless models too.

But to answer your question: No, not necessarily. You have a better chance of it being quiet because only high quality power supplies will have a gold certification, but it's not guaranteed.

merlin
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Post by merlin » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:31 pm

Major misconception here. Being efficient doesn't guarantee any type of quietness. An 80plus gold psu could easily have a terrible fan controller + low quality fan and be quite loud. Now having less heat to dissipate will generally help a manufacturer keep fan speeds down, but not every psu is a freaking Seasonic X-series. (or equivalent via Corsair AX750/850) (which is what you should just go buy if you are so confused).

kater
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Post by kater » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:31 pm

That would be unrealistically good situation for prospective silence oriented buyers - just get a gold certified PSU. No such luck, as previously stated by others here.

Also, consider that in an average SCPR build it will not be the PSU that will be the loudest part. It will be the 3.5" HDD. In a worst case scenario you won't be able to appreciate the difference between a pricey but excellent fanless X 400 and a cheap yet v quiet Nexus Value. My point is - consider other parts as well. If you do need a spacious 3.5" HDD, put in inside SQD or similar enclosure. If you need a powerful gaming VGA, choose GB Windfart (ekhm, Windforce) or MSI Hawk etc.

Key word - bottleneck.

Oh, SLI and CF are pointless. Period. Especially for the silence loving crowd.

guermantes
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Post by guermantes » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:28 am

Hi, thanks for replying!
It seems Corsair AX would be a good choice then.

However, the point about 3.5" HDDs being the main source of noise in a SPCR build, makes me wonder if I am not going for overkill if aiming for SPCR standards? I tend to hear the HDD (Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB) when it is defragmenting or writing to it. Otherwise it is fan noise that is bothering me with my old Dell Dimension 9100 (which was very very quiet for about 3 years and now since 2 years is makig a lot of noise).

What I am aiming for is a computer that will not get in the way of me enjoying Chopin in the evening on low volume, but still has powerful GPU so that I can enjoy the occasional computer game as well (and if there is fan noise when I play games I don't mind). I was thinking Radeon 5850 DirectCU. But maybe I skip thinking about CF/SLI.

quest_for_silence
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Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:42 am

guermantes wrote:I tend to hear the HDD (Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB) when it is defragmenting or writing to it.

You may go with Seagate Momentus XT or WD Scorpio Black sealed in Scythe enclosures.
guermantes wrote:Otherwise it is fan noise that is bothering me with my old Dell Dimension 9100 (which was very very quiet for about 3 years and now since 2 years is makig a lot of noise).

Fan noise is strictly related even to quality and age of the fans themselves.
guermantes wrote:I was thinking Radeon 5850 DirectCU. But maybe I skip thinking about CF/SLI.

You may also be creative.

Regards,
Luca

P.S.:
guermantes wrote:I was thinking Radeon 5850 DirectCU. But maybe I skip thinking about CF/SLI.

However, for 2-way CFX you won't need more than 550W (maybe +100W for a 2-way SLI): look at these charts.

guermantes
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Post by guermantes » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:35 am

Very interesting. I am learning a lot in this thread. And the whole idea of buying small things to install in the case is frighteningly appealing to me (I don't have the time, nor the money...)

Regarding the PSU, is there any point from
a) a silence point of view,
b) lifecycle of the PSU itself,
to buy e.g. 750W unit even if my predicted peak usage will be at 550W?

My thinking being that maybe a 750W unit will be cooler and/or more silent at 550W usage than a 650W unit (due to a larger margin between usage and capacity).

Or do those things vary from model to model?

Thanks!

kater
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Post by kater » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:07 am

Tell us what exactly you're going to run (CPU, VGA, drives) and you'll get a very accurate prediction of wattage. And knowing your wattage you'll be able to pick the optimal PSU. Optimal meaning that it'll have enough power to fuel your rig, will be ultra quiet (or even effectively silent) at low loads and v quiet when loaded, and will not cost you a small fortune.

After all, there's no challenge in recommending you to get P183 + CP 850 ;)

Your reasoning behind the wattage / noise / reliability relation is false, as this thing varies from model to model.

In short - because today's quality, certified PSUs, when powering a certain rig, run under the same conditions (producing practically the same amount of heat with a specific setup), the difference boils down to the choice of fan and setting of its controller, and to a lesser degree on the PSUs radiators.

A 500W unit working at 100W idle load will generate (virtually) the same amount of heat as a 1000W unit.
A 500W unit working at 450W gaming/benching load will generate (virtually) the same amount of heat as a 1000W unit.

The fact that one will be running at <50% and the other one at 90% means nothing. What temperature they'll be running at depends on their radiators and fan RPM. And these things will depend on the make and model.

Also, remember that today's quality PSUs generate v little heat and come with high rated capacitors - which means they'll be operating with a lot of headroom. A capacitor rated at 85 (or 105 in better models) may actually never work at 50 or even 60 or more. At low loads they'll be cool, and at higher loads the fan will kick in and cool them.

Another thing to remember is that unless you're a professional gamer who needs to practice 15 hrs a day, your PC will most likely idle 90% of time.

Sorry for getting theoretical, but it's a common misconception to get a super powerful PSU in hope that'll be running cooler. Actually, it's the other way around. The higher the load on a PSU (up to a certain point, usually around 90%) the better its efficiency. So a 500W PSU working with 100W load will have a (slightly) better efficiency than a 850W unit running at 100W. Higher efficiency = fewer watts wasted = lower temperature = less work for the fan. Of course, 80+ certificate makes sure that a PSU will always have a good efficiency, even at low loads.

See this page - a table compares various PSUs. All v good, hi quality PSUs made by the best producers. All exhibit v similar efficiency. And all behave differently :)

guermantes
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Post by guermantes » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:40 pm

Asus - Socket 1366 - ATX Intel X58 (P6X58D-E)
Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz / 8MB / Socket 1366
8 Gb RAM
Probably Asus ATI Radeon 5850 Direct CU 1GB
Samsung Intern SATA DVD±RW 22x Dual Layer
2x Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB (7200RPM / 32MB Cache)

The Corsair wattage calulator told me this would be around 534W.

I am certainly not a hardcore gamer. I do play games a little bit, though. I mainly work in Photoshop and InDesign and use the computer for listening to music, watching TV and (far too much) surfing the web.

Would the computer "idle" when I do those things? TV, I guess not but what about Photoshop or surfing the web (not YouTube!)?

Thanks!

kater
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Post by kater » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:10 pm

This setup will run perfectly OK on a quality 500W*. If you want to OC it very heavily, both CPU and VGA, then maybe a 600W would be a little safer. In idle you'll be probably drawing around 130W, and <300W when playing games. These are number at the wall, so your PSU will be actually feeding ca 15% less to your stuff.
PSU calculators are know for exaggerating such figures. And most probably the figure you got is not the power you'll be using but the recommended wattage of the PSU.

Yes, the PC will work at its lowest power settings most of the time. I don't really know about your graphic software, but I don't think the CPU will have to work heavily - it's already a powerful multicore chip. So you'll only draw more power when gaming. 5xxx series VGAs are especially economical in this regard. Also, keep in mind that games most usually don't load your PC to the fullest - only benchmark apps can do that.

How about getting an SSD for your OS and basic soft? 60-64 GB should be quite enough. And you're apps will fly. Given the overall cost of your PC this should not be a problem. There are plenty of v good SSD drives today, and prices are dropping as we speak.

* Personally, I would hook it up to any good 400W and be happy as well. I'm just over provisioning so you have a lot of headroom already.

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