Less than pleased with Seasonic Tornado (second revision)

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:06 am

CoolColJ wrote:
Ralf Hutter wrote:CoolColJ - What mobo are you running?
Asus P4P800 deluxe, which I see you also own

The P4P800 and P4P800 Deluxe under report the CPU temps by around 7-9 °C from most other P4 boards (Abits excluded), that's why your temps are so cool. When I saw your idle temps of 25°C I had a strong suspicion that I knew what board you were using. Have you ever wondered why your mobo temps are reported as being higher than your CPU temps unless you're running at full load?

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:25 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:
CoolColJ wrote:
Ralf Hutter wrote:CoolColJ - What mobo are you running?
Asus P4P800 deluxe, which I see you also own
The P4P800 and P4P800 Deluxe under report the CPU temps by around 7-9 °C from most other P4 boards (Abits excluded), that's why your temps are so cool. When I saw your idle temps of 25°C I had a strong suspicion that I knew what board you were using. Have you ever wondered why your mobo temps are reported as being higher than your CPU temps unless you're running at full load?

The temps shoot up with I'm in the bios screen and when I have hyperthreading turned off, even in Windows XP. But when I have HT on and boot into XP, the temp starts to drop very low.
Th other day I did an experiment. With HT off, the CPU would idle at around 38. With HT on, the CPU started at 38 when I first booted into XP, and then slowly ramped down to around 28-30 after 5mins. So who knows.

I don't know wether it's accurate or not, but judging the heatsink by touch it seems to be inline with what I feel. The heatsink is just moderately warm to touch, certainly cooler than my 2 Seagate Baracuda IVs

And the Case fan exhaust is not really that warm either.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:45 am

CoolColJ wrote: The temps shoot up with I'm in the bios screen

The temps read higher in the BIOS than they do in Windows becasue Windows has a command built into it that actually idles the CPU when no work is being done. We've discussed this several times here at SPCR.

Here's one,

and here's another.

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 1:01 pm

Well I don't get that with hyperthreading turned off.

gojira · Post by **gojira** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:39 am

I just want to add another data point to this discussion. I have a Super Tornado 300 (SS-300FB) that I recently purchased. It is by far the loudest component in my system. It is making that banging noise similar to a 2 cycle engine. It is not very loud but my system is otherwise virtually silent when the suspended hard drive is not seeking. My open case sits on my desk about 2 feet to the right of me so any noise is quite noticeable.

My system is quite low power, since that is one of my objectives. I am running a Tualatin PIII-S 1.13 Ghz CPU with an SLK800 heatsink and a Pana FBL08A12M at 5V. I have a single Samsung 1614N suspended on gaskets. I have no case fans running, but my case (SLK3700) is completely open. My video card is a Matrox Mystique (4MB) which obviously uses very little power.

The PS starts up with the knocking noise and keeps doing it at exactly the same noise level until I shut down the computer. I have not noticed any ramping up. I have not tried doing anything to "stress" the system like swapping my Matrox card for my TI4400 and playing a 3D game.

I am now thinking about returning this unit. I will have to pay the 15% restocking fee though. Maybe I should just swap out the 12cm fan in the Seasonic with my 12cm Papst case fan, even though it will void my warranty. I wish I knew what the hell was causing that knocking sound. I find that if I press up against the bottom grill I can make the fan scrape against it, but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. I am beginning to think that putting a 12cm fan in a PS was not such a good idea.

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:53 am

It is making that banging noise similar to a 2 cycle engine.

That is very weird. Maybe you could record the sound and send it to me as a file. I can't imagine what this is?!

Bierfuizl · Post by **Bierfuizl** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:47 am

I've got the Samsung SP1604N (2 MB cache) in my system, unsuspended in a Lian Li 60 Alu case. My 300FB is on a similar noise level as the SP1604N (in idle mode) to give you an idea on how it should sound. It is nowhere near "2-stroke" sound levels

.

As I'm using a water-cooled setup I don't have any problems with case temperature so the 300FB should run on the lowest setting possible (at least I hope that is the case).

From a distance of around 1 meter you can barely hear either the Samsung (idle) or the 300FB in a very quiet room (3am in the morning with almost no ambient noise). When the Samsung HD does intensive disk access you can hear some slight noises when ambient sound is very low.

No other fans in the system. The Eheim pump driving the water-cooling is damped with cheap styrofoam frame and inaudible. But I'll have to get rid of my old 'noisy' Maxtor 5400rpm 80GB HD now...

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:43 am

Well for those interested -

Today was a warmer day in the mid 20 degrees, 23-25.
I ran my system at 3.5 gigahertz , with the 120mm Evercool case fan around 4-6volts. I did some surfing and then played BattleField 1942 mod for a few hours.

This is the temps MBM recorded

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Total number of readouts: 4745 CPU Speed: 3498 MHz |
|Running from: 18/10/2003 2:02:40 PM until: 18/10/2003 8:39:22 PM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Sensor | Current | Low | High | Average |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|CPU | 34° C | 31° C | 53° C | 43° C |
|MotherBoard | 33° C | 26° C | 38° C | 35° C |
|Harddrive 1 | 35° C | 24° C | 37° C | 35° C |
|Harddrive 2 | 35° C | 22° C | 36° C | 34° C |
|Core 0 | 1.54 V | 1.44 V | 1.57 V | 1.50 V |

|Fan 1 | 1406 RPM | 1360 RPM | 1638 RPM | 1524 RPM |
|Fan 2 | 1041 RPM | 807 RPM | 1278 RPM | 1041 RPM |
|Fan 3 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+

MGP · Post by **MGP** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:52 pm

I just have a hard time understanding how you're 2.8GHz w/800MHz FSB overclocked to 3.8GHz could possibly run cooler than my 2.53 w/533 FSB non-overclocked. My temps usually idle around 45C and hit up to 55C max (and usually, after high stress, the CPU temp idles around 50C). Even with the so-called "lucky" chip, you're oced 3.8 CPU puts out the kinds of temps that the 1.8 P4's did (I believe so).

I'm starting to think that Ralf's right about the Asus BIOS not reading the temps accurately as your CPU @ stock speeds still puts out more wattage than my 2.53 and A LOT more than a 1.8.

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:21 pm

It was running at 3.5, not 3.8gigahertz !

3.8 is right on the limit of air cooled stability and not something I would use day to day. The last time I ran it at 3.8g was to test my chip limits and it was idling at 40 degrees on a 18-20 degree day.
If I was using something like a Vapo Chill or Prometia, yeah I would run it at that speed

Well my CPU peaked at 53 degrees yesterday after a few hours of gaming at 3.5 gigahertz. Say the temp reporting is 7 degrees lower than it actually is, then it peaked at 60 degrees, but it was stable.

Today will be a test, ambient temp is 27 degrees right now and probbaly warmer in my room. I'll see how it goes at 3.5g and with some gaming to boot

Temps so far with just email and surfing

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Total number of readouts: 33 CPU Speed: 3498 MHz |
|Running from: 19/10/2003 8:02:41 AM until: 19/10/2003 11:25:03 AM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Sensor | Current | Low | High | Average |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|CPU | 35° C | 33° C | 36° C | 34° C |
|MotherBoard | 33° C | 33° C | 33° C | 33° C |
|Harddrive 1 | 36° C | 36° C | 36° C | 36° C |
|Harddrive 2 | 35° C | 35° C | 35° C | 35° C |
|Core 0 | 1.54 V | 1.46 V | 1.55 V | 1.53 V |

|Fan 1 | 1418 RPM | 1406 RPM | 1418 RPM | 1417 RPM |
|Fan 2 | 1035 RPM | 1004 RPM | 1041 RPM | 1022 RPM |
|Fan 3 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+

klingon · Post by **klingon** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:10 am

I'm a happy newbie to the concept of "Silent PC" since I accidentally visited this site while I was looking for user reviews of various power supplies about 2 weeks ago.

Before being exposed to the idea of "Silent PC", I considered the PC noise as necessary evil but annoyed by it a lot. I have 4 PCs at home plus 1 laptop which I always carry around for my work. For the last 2 weeks, I have been doing some work on my and my son's PCs to make them "silent or less noisy PCs" with the information I got from this site and I happened to pick Seasonic as silent power supplies of choice.

I selected Super Tornado 300FB for my PC and SS300 (non-PFC) for my son's. Since I installed them, I've been happy as a clam on both of them. My 300FB has been performing just as I expected and I have not experienced any of the problems mentioned in this particular discussion thread (no banging noise or no roller coaster like ups and downs of fan speed changes). The fan of my 300FB faithfully follows the temperature and load changes of various components in the PC and keep itself very quite in most of the times with some occasional fan speed increase to the level that I can hear in my normal sitting position (my PC is under the desk). Even during such occasions, the noise level does not bother me much (well this must differ from person to person...).

Here's my PC's configuration:

Mobo: Asus P4C800 Deluxe
CPU: P4 2.8C (no overclocking) with Zalman 7000 AlCu cooler (with the FAN speed at 1800RPM)
RAM: HYNIX 512MB PC3200 DDR 2 ea
Graphics: ELSA Falcox 960FX Pro (ATI Radeon 9600 pro) - no overclocking
HDD: Seagate 7200.7 80GB P-ATA
LAN: 3Com 3C905B (onboard gigabit LAN on my mobo is having some problem with my LAN switch...)
DVD: LG GDR8161B
CD-RW: HP (well, I forgot the model number for this one...)
FDD: Samsung 3.5"
Cooler Master 80mm case fan (Dual Ball Bearing) with Zalman Fanmate 1 (set at RPM 1500)

With the above setting and during the normal PC load (web surfing, Word or Excel work, etc), I have:

CPU temp: 38 - 42C
Mobo temp: around 30C
PSU fan speed: 800 - 900 RPM

With the full CPU load (games, MPEG encoding, etc):

CPU temp: around 53C max
Mobo temp: around 38C
PSU fan: round 1450 RPM (with gradual and constant increase. No roller coaster ride)

After the load is removed, the PSU fan speed decreases gradually and constantly. At 1450RPM it gets quite audible in my usual sitting position but then again it is still much quieter than my old stock power supply (with 2500RPM sleeve bearing 80mm fan).

So, I'm still not sure whether I'm really lucky to get a good piece or it is the difference in expectation or sensitivity to the noise of me and some of you guys but I can definitely say that I'm very happy with my 300FB and I intend to keep it for a long time (I'm hoping that it could survive my next PC upgrade).

Klingon in Korea

jaimemitche · Post by **jaimemitche** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:46 am

I just recieved my seasonic ss 300ft from koolnquiet and have to say I'm half impressed.

On first install running on a piii ghz with 1 barracuda hard disk it was very quiet on first install infact probably as quiet as the panaflo 80mm l1a's 24v @ 12v. Defently quieter than the barracuda hard disk by a long way.

However after a longish shutdown to install some acustopak delux, upon starting up the dreaded hum and no spinning fan reported in other threads. In fact the room temperature had increased. Flicking the fan to get it spinning made it start but with a much worse warbling noise than the no start hum. After about 10 mins of lowish load for the system say only 40w dc load with the case closed (p60 with 3 L1a's) the warbling went away and back to a nice and quiet system with low airflow through the psu.

So 10/10 when its running properly and 1/10 for quality control and testing. Also top marks for koolnquiet.

Jaime

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 11:24 pm

I just want to add another data point to this discussion. I have a Super Tornado 300 (SS-300FB) that I recently purchased. It is by far the loudest component in my system. It is making that banging noise similar to a 2 cycle engine. It is not very loud but my system is otherwise virtually silent when the suspended hard drive is not seeking. My open case sits on my desk about 2 feet to the right of me so any noise is quite noticeable.

I think I know what this "banging noise" might be. I noticed on my SS 300FT, when I stop the fan with the twis-tie for testing-- it has real difficulty spinning back up. In this partially started state, the fan is quite noisy.. jumping and straining with the electrical effort of spinning up. Even after it starts spinning reliably (which sometimes takes a bit of help from me), at very low rpms this electrical noise is still somewhat audible, though nowhere near as bad as the almost-completely-stopped state.

PeterDLai · Post by **PeterDLai** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:48 pm

I'm sorry if this has been addressed already, but are only the OEM versions of the Super Tornado (SS-300FT) PSU the ones with problems? Or does it also apply to the retail version (SS-300FB).

Thanks.

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:20 pm

Er, sorry, I was referring to the retail version in my comment above. I didn't realize "FT" meant OEM.

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:43 am

Well I've just purchased this unit (the FT version) from koolnquiet, having spectacularly failed to notice this thread before making my decision

Anyway, I've also found that the fan seems very trigger happy, and with the case closed will run at a speed where it's clearly the major source of noise coming from the box.

Interestingly if I leave the case open the issue goes away, which leads me to wonder if it's an airflow problem. I have the Antec AMB3700, with in and out fans running at 7V. I've even verified that if I remove the hard-drive cage, to ensure unrestricted airflow from the in fan, the PSU still wants to wind up when the case is closed.

In both cases the mobo is reporting a board temp of 25C (yes, I know this isn't a good measure of case temp, but...). Ambient temperature is ... late November in the UK

I'm wondering what to do about this. I could return the unit, but then what do I replace it with? The other option which occurred to me was to flip the fan in the PSU so it's drawing air in from the back, rather than in from the case. This will of course void my warranty, so it's kind of incompatible with returning the unit.

Any ideas?

jojo4u · Post by **jojo4u** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:07 am

nutball wrote: Interestingly if I leave the case open the issue goes away, which leads me to wonder if it's an airflow problem. I have the Antec AMB3700, with in and out fans running at 7V.

What about pulling out the front fan?

ljmeijer · Post by **ljmeijer** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:28 am

Damnit, I just made a decision to buy the "Seasonic SS-300FT Active PFC 300W ATXv1.3 oem" from koolnquiet. I didn't order it yet, but I was so happy to have finally chosen a PSU (took me a few weeks).

Now I find this thread with people having lots of problems with it. Most messages are a few months old, so I was hoping SeaSonic would have resolved all issues, and now someone just bought one from the same shop I'm about to buy one from, and it looks like its still not fixed. (coincidentally I also have the slk3700amb case).

nutball, could you confirm this describes your problem:

- the PSU fan will spin too fast
- You're not expiriencing the 'whining' sound which is suspected to come from nonstarting fans
- You're fan does start up properly.

In the other SS300 thread, concerning the whining, it looked like seasonic was very swift and helpful to resolve the issue. Is Seasonic aware of the problem described in this thread, that the fan spins too fast? Was a comment made? MikeC, did you tell them about it?

Ordering parts for a new pc is taking a lot longer than I was hoping for

Thanks for any info, Lucas

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:24 am

ljmeijer wrote:nutball, could you confirm this describes your problem:

- the PSU fan will spin too fast

Yes, the fan spins faster than I would expect it too given the general ambient temperature, when the case is closed.

I can also hear it reacting on very short timescales to changes in load on the machine. For example, with the case open and the fan generally quiet, just scrolling or moving a window will cause the fan to increase speed very slightly, which against a generally silent background is a bit annoying.

- You're not expiriencing the 'whining' sound which is suspected to come from nonstarting fans
- You're fan does start up properly.

No, the fan starts fine, and I don't get a 'whining' sound, at least not one associated with non-start. The noise the fan makes when running fast contains some definite "fan" noise (ie. it's not just whoosing air), but I wouldn't characterise it as a whine.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:08 am

ljmeijer,

My SS400 is a bit noisier than I had expected (prob. much noisier than Mike C's Modded PSUs!) but it doesn't spin up and slow down like these bad tornados.

If you're looking for a quiet PSU, go with one of Mike C's and be done with it. They aren't the absolute newest, but are probably the quietest available without modding one yourself.

Ducky · Post by **Ducky** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:33 pm

Wheee. Bought one of these ST 300Ws from a local Fry's that just opened up. I must say, I'm slightly disappointed as well. Compared to the PSU I replaced it with, (Antec Trupower 300W) it's hard to tell the noise signature difference at when I'm in the same room -- it's just slightly lower in pitch. My Nexus 3000 was much quieter in that regard.

However, the noise from the PSU can't be heard from 10 feet away, unlike the Antec, which could be heard from 20+ feet away.

So, I'd say that, from the price, power savings, and waranty standpoint, it's a pretty good quiet PSU, but it's by no means "silent." So, people who really, really need a silent PSU prob. should look elsewhere.

PS · Post by PS » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:05 am

for you folks who're having problems... have you contacted Seasonic support to try to make good on the 3-year warranty? I thought I had read earlier that they were being very good with replacing units that had odd fan problems... anyone want to verify or refute this for me? I WAS hoping to get a Super Tornado 400 for xmas, but now... I guess I just don't know...

-PS

MGP · Post by **MGP** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:19 am

Apparently from what others have said, Seasonic DOES replace your "no-start, buzzing fan" PSU with one that has a LOUD, fully-working fan. Good luck.

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:52 am

PS wrote:for you folks who're having problems... have you contacted Seasonic support to try to make good on the 3-year warranty? I thought I had read earlier that they were being very good with replacing units that had odd fan problems... anyone want to verify or refute this for me? I WAS hoping to get a Super Tornado 400 for xmas, but now... I guess I just don't know...

-PS

This might work in US, outside the US we're pretty much hosed, and the deal only applies for the no-start fan problem, not the fan-spins-up-way-to-easy-and-is-as-noisy-as-heck-problem. Maybe I could have returned to the place I bought it from, but I felt that chances are a replacement would be just as bad, so I modded it.

I won't say I'm happy with the situation, but the PSU is now quiet. When it blows up, I won't be buying a Seasonic to replace it.

MartinH · Post by **MartinH** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:41 am

I just got a Super Tornado 300 for my system, and I'm less than pleased too.

When first booting, it is silent. After a few minutes, the fan noise is noticeable, but not offensive. If I run a video game, it is quite loud. I don't have any of the wild fan behaviour others are talking about, but it is definitely not a quiet system.

In case it matters, I'm running an Athlon 2800, Radeon 9800, 2 CD/DVD drives, and 2 HDDs. It might be a bit more than average, but not outrageous.

What other options are there now? This is the quietest supply recommended by SPCR, and I'm definitely not satisfied. Is there another that might be quieter?

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:28 am

Wumpus posted that he was happy with a Fortron model. It's one of the last posts of one of the Tornado threads.

Have you seen where the king is ranked now? Check the recommended list, he lost his crown!

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:29 pm

Trip wrote:Wumpus posted that he was happy with a Fortron model. It's one of the last posts of one of the Tornado threads.

Have you seen where the king is ranked now? Check the recommended list, he lost his crown!

Time to work on the new king - Nexus 3000?

I remember reading a thread Noisy Nexus 3000 that seemed to be related to a different fan being used than the one in MikeC's review.

luap · Post by **luap** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:14 pm

hello,
I bought a Seasonics Super Tornado 400w ps and put it my Antec Sonata.
I was disappointed to discover that this unit exhibited the fan rpm increase/
decrease at fairly random moments. I've been checking mbm5, and there are no rise in temps to account for the rise/fall of rpm for the Seasonic's fan.
I am saddened by this, cause when it drops in rpm , its pretty darn quiet.
It gets allmost loud at high rpm. Its the random change in rpm and noise level thats bothersome. The Sonata's stock psu may be louder, but at least
it worked as it was designed to- in my pc, the antec psu only got louder as
the system got put thru its paces.
I just wanted to let folks know that I have reason to believe Seasonic still has some bugs to work out.

Inside my Sonata is an asus a7v333, athlon xp running at 1503mhz(stock,forgot the athlon model #) 1g pc 2100 memory, ti4200 , sb live, nic.
My quieting efforts include a zalman alcu 7000 with fan set to lowest speed,an evercool 120mm fan with fanmate set to lowest voltage replacing the stock antec fan,a zalman heat pipe thingy on the video card, and a try with the Seasonic psu. My pc has been on all day, but not necessarily stressed , and mbm is showing temps of 31celsius on sensor 1 and 43 celsius on sensor 2. I think sensor 2 is the
sensor closest to the cpu(duh). I read that asus mobos tend to understate
temps, but these temps in the Sonata case are better than the same set up in my previous case. And quieter. I figure if I can find a quality quiet psu I'll be satisfied with the Sonata.
I havent decided about returning the Seasonic yet. Has anybody opened
one and disabled / removed the temp sensing diode? Would doing that leave the fan running at low rpm/voltage, or high rpm/voltage?

edit- just figured out my mbm settings for my mb-cpu temp =39 celsius,for diode, and 43 celsius for socket.

Mad Ad · Post by **Mad Ad** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:33 pm

Well after running my retail box (from Frys Seattle) Super Tornado 300 for 2 days now (at UK voltage mind) and I cannot complain at all - its as good as silent especially hearing the useless generic that I threw out. Instantly the loudest component became my cpu fan and even sticking my fingers in both the cpu and vc fans I could barely hear anything at all from the remaining psu fan (yes it was spinning, It was so quiet I had to check visually).

I dont seem to suffer from any spinup problems people complain of and its running as my home network gateway (plus assorted tasks such as climate prediction, 2 irc bots, ftp server, yadda ya) in a cabinet with another hotter PC.

I do notice from specs that apart from the dr.cable and voltage sensing that the retail spec lists a fan gasket while OEM does not.

Lastly, I noticed something funny, mebee co-incidence. I connected it in normally, then started it up and it ran fine. I swapped in a 7v dongle I have (using the 12 minus 5 wiring pattern) for my cpu and as soon as I switched on I heard this high pitched squeal, not loud, but certainly loud enough with everything else in the box. The pc booted too, no problem there (except the noise). I took the adapter out and on restart, no squeal.

Ive not tried it since and have had 2 days of much reduced noise thanks to the ST300 .... even with my cpu fan at 12v. I am awaiting some fanmates (since my usless local Maplin only have 3w max rheostats - these people get worse each month).

Sincity · Post by **Sincity** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:13 pm

I just replaced my noisy Silverstone ST400 in a Antec P160 case with a Tornado 300W unit. It is now much quieter. Before I used to hear the Silverstone. Now I just hear the gentle woosh of the 120mm Antec case fan.

Very happy!