IDE, SCSI, cost, reliability, random thoughts...

matt_garman · Post by **matt_garman** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:33 pm

I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I can't help but bring it up yet again. (Here's the last thread I started on this topic.)

One of my computers I've always designated as a server, and its responsibilities have increased since building a HTPC. The server will now be the storage respository for a video-on-demand system. I took the easy route on "silencing" this machine: I moved it to the basement. Now I can load it up will all the cheapest high-capacity drives I can find.

The concern now is for my workstation PC. As I mentioned in the thread above, I like to run the OS and applications off a SCSI drive and use it for storing my work (which doesn't require much space).

The newest SCSI drive I have right now is a Fujitsu 10k RPM 36 GB drive (MAP3367NP). It has a definite whine, though not as bad as my Western Digital 120 GB 1200JBs. I'm considering buying a new SCSI drive for the workstation (and move the Fujitsu into the server).

So my question is this: since the last IDE-SCSI discussion, does anyone have any new experience with SCSI drives that pass for quiet?

For me, I really only care about the idle noise of the hard drive (as long as the activity noise isn't obscene). Whining is evil

I'm still stuck on SCSI because of a perceived quality/reliability benefit. (SCSI used to be good for bragging rights, now people just think I'm dumb for spending that much money!) I wish I had the time and money to really do a good, comprehensive, long term realiability study on different drives (using huge batch sizes). It would be nice to study things that can affect reliability: usage, temperature extremes, movement, power cycles, etc.

And, FWIW, I'd like to win (or otherwise obtain for free) a Seagate Savvio, but I certainly won't be buying one with my money any time soon!

It's ironic, that the hard drive usually houses the most valuable part of your system, but is one of the most likely to fail components.

Thoughts?

Matt

mrzed · Post by **mrzed** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:57 pm

IDE RAID 1 - probably beats SCSI in cost, noise and reliability. Power consumption - ? - performance would go to SCSI but I doubt it would be a big difference.

tay · Post by **tay** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:24 pm

I'm gonna also reccomend an IDE setup using enterprise class drives like the maxtor maxline.The WD Raptor series are enterprise class as well AFAIK. They should have different MTBF ratings and warranties FWIW than the desktop drives.

Maxtor

WD*

I stopped using SCSI years ago.

*Admin edit of side scrolling url's
*Tay edit : Thank you!! Now i know how to post url's lol

BOOGS · Post by **BOOGS** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:33 pm

Depends on what OS you are using.

on windows, SCSI is a total waste of time.............makes no difference whatsoever.........

I would for the best spec ATA drive u can get

even SATA doesnt make any noticeable difference ( at the moment )

mikellpp · Post by **mikellpp** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:51 am

My latest drive is a 15K SCSI Fujitsu MAS3367 and i am happy with it. I also own 3 original Barracuda IV's, a Samsung and 2 Raptors. The Raptors were disappointing noise-wise. They both have the annoying whine, although the whine is not constant and not very loud, its still noticable. The Fujitsu scsi drive has absolutely zero whine, even if you put your ear next to it.

I am currently running a AMD64 2800 o/c to 2.4 ghz. I use a XP-90 hs with a 80 mm Panaflo (5-7v). The p/s is a Seasonic Toronado. I use a Panaflo/5v to cool the hard drive. The loudest noise in the system is a whooshing sound from the hard drive. My Kingwin case has large front air intakes which lets the sound escape.

The 15K Fujitsu SCSI performance is really good and it has zero whine.

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:46 am

I'm still stuck on SCSI because of a perceived quality/reliability benefit. (SCSI used to be good for bragging rights, now people just think I'm dumb for spending that much money!)

I don't think there's any quality and/or reliability difference between SCSI and IDE drives.

I wish I had the time and money to really do a good, comprehensive, long term realiability study on different drives (using huge batch sizes). It would be nice to study things that can affect reliability: usage, temperature extremes, movement, power cycles, etc.

StorageReview.com has something similar to that, although to a lesser degree. Doing such a study would be quite difficult because of all the variables possible.

My $.02: SCSI really doesn't net you much for the desktop market. It really shines in server scenarios with high (random) disk I/O. I personally advise people against using it for desktops.

matt_garman · Post by **matt_garman** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:10 pm

One more concern I forgot to raise: I once read that IDE drives were designed to be power cycled, whereas SCSI drives were designed to run continuously. This was due to the assumption that IDE drives typically go into the computers of "ordinary" users, who turn their computer on and off every day. On the other hand, SCSI drives were assumed to be deployed in servers and high-end workstations that were left running all the time (i.e. very few power cycles).

So with that in mind, some folks felt that an IDE drive's life expectancy would be degraded if used in a machine that runs 24/7.

Has anyone else heard about that, and if so, is it still the case? Also, if true, it is a valid concern for me because I leave all my computers running all the time.

But, on the other hand, I was not aware that companies are now making "enterprise class" IDE drives. Some of the drives mentioned above have (or are getting) SCSI-like features, such as tagged command queueing.

I suppose I should research this, but I wonder how different SCSI drives are from ATA drives these days. There has to be some mechanical difference, as 300 GB SCSI drives just came out. I would think that some of the technology or manufacturing techniques (or whatever) that earned SCSI drives their better reliability reputation would be "back ported" into IDE drives by now. (Kind of like IDE=Toyota, SCSI=Lexus; wait long enough and tomorrow's Toyota will have all the goodies of today's Lexus.)

Anyway... I worry about hard drives too much

Matt

tay · Post by **tay** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:27 pm

tay wrote:I'm gonna also reccomend an IDE setup using enterprise class drives like the maxtor maxline.The WD Raptor series are enterprise class as well AFAIK. They should have different MTBF ratings and warranties FWIW than the desktop drives.

Maxtor

WD*

In case you didnt bother reading earlier. Enterprise drives are used 24/7.

The deskstar 75gxp series had a problem with being powered up 24/7. None of the drives I have used (Deskstar 60gxp, samsung 80P (the old multiplatter ones), maxtor maxline 320 GB) have had problems. Runnning 24/7 for at least 18 months with each drive other than the maxtor.