Cheap PC Toys Round IDE Cables

[levander]

I've seen round IDE cables from more known / better respected brands, however, at a minimum of $10 a cable, and the fact that I need 6, I just don't feel like spending the $70 it would cost right now.

However, I found some round PC Toys cables that are only $1 a cable. I've googled around and found several pretty good reviews of various PC Toys products that all reported pretty good conclusions, but none of these round IDE cables. Here are the cables:

http://pctoys.com/idecables.html

It wouldn't bother me if there was at least a good name brand or positive reviews from a reputable source. Or, even if I trusted my own benchmarking of the cables. If I ran a benchmark and looked in my Linux syslog for CRC errors and didn't find any, I still wouldn't know if six months later I started getting them. Plus, on my other Windows box, I wouldn't know what errors to look for in these test.

Is a $1 a cable to good to be true? Or, if I purchase these will I end up with slow data corruption that not even restoring a data backup would be a cure-all for?

[m0002a]

Actually, round IDE cables do not meet ATA-5 specfications that the wires be positioned physically so that there is a ground wire between each signal wire. Round cables do have 80 wires, but they not positioned according to specification. If you learn how to fold flat cables, they can placed in a way that does not obstruct air flow.

[Kaizer]

Is a $1 a cable to good to be true? Or, if I purchase these will I end up with slow data corruption that not even restoring a data backup would be a cure-all for?

These cables will most likely be a hit or miss sort of thing. Here are some user reviews on similar products that I've seen on sale for about the same price ($1 to $3).

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php? ... ct_id=8881

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php? ... t_id=12248

As you can see the results are somewhat mixed. The products from your link above may have similar results. If you're serious about data protection, I'd go with m0002a's suggestions and get standard ribbon cables and modding them into "rounded" ones. The alternative would be to, like you said, get quality rounded cable like Antec Cobra http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php? ... ture=ANTEC

Actually, round IDE cables do not meet ATA-5 specfications that the wires be positioned physically so that there is a ground wire between each signal wire. Round cables do have 80 wires, but they not positioned according to specification.

Do you have a link for this?

[m0002a]

Do you have a link for this?

I got this information from a SPCR reviewer who posted it on this forum. I believe they posted a link, but not absolutely sure about that.

BTW, when I said “fold the flat cable” I was not thinking of making it round, but running it flat against the case walls and changing direction by folding the cable over on itself (usually at 90 degree angles).

[levander]

Yeah, what m0002a posted is about what I've read. The specification does say flat cables, but they've gotten around this by adding shielding and some other stuff so that they can make the cables round. Basically, my understanding is that there is no claim that round IDE cables implement the specification, but do claim to be compatible with it.

However, in my opinion, round cables over the last couple of years are in wide enough use that I wouldn't worry about using them.

However, $1 cables from a maker I never heard of does make me wonder. Unfortunately, I don't have time to look at the reviews Kaizer posted right now, I will get to them in the next hour or so.

[levander]

These cables will most likely be a hit or miss sort of thing.

Okay, thanks Kaizer, think I'm gonna pass on the PC Toys cables. Besides their just not being enough information on the internet about them, I'm guessing your right. I looked at the reviews you posted, and the cables will probably be hit or miss.

Maybe in the future I'll spend the cash on the Antec Cobra's. There are a lot of things in the Antec product line I like (except for their fans) and would feel comfortable using those.

But, for now, guess I gotta figure out cablegami a little bit.

[Bluefront]

Heh....I'm using them in several computers without incident. I think I paid about $3 ea. Flat ribbon cables usually never fit anything I build.....without being tied in knots.

[Rusty075]

The issue with round cables isn't whether they'll work or not. They will. The issue is whether their lack of inter-wire sheilding will increase crosstalk interference. When two of the data wires run side by side there's a chance that a signal in one will interfere with the signal in its neighbor. (just like with spark plug wires, for all you car guys out there) That's why half the wires in an IDE ribbon are nothing but ground wires; they insulate the data wires from each other. Separate the ribbon into 80 individual wires and now lots of the data wires end up running parallel to each other, defeating the purpose of the sheilding wires.

If the data bit gets interfered with the ECC code catches it, and has the controller resend it. That means that it then took more than twice as long for the same bit to get between the HDD and the CPU as it would have without the interference. This happens all the time, without any visible affect to the system, except for a reduction in performance. These lost bits do not generally cause system crashes.

Now in real terms the performance loss is tiny, but its there. Considering that there's virtually no situation where you can't just use a flat ribbon cable, I see little reason to pay extra for a component that performs worse than the ones that came free.

If you really, really have to use a rounded cable (which I don't know why you would...its going to be flat on each end anyway, why not make it flat the whole way?) at least buy good ones. There are three ways to make a rounded cable:
-Cheap way: 80 individual wires in a plastic sheath.
-Better way: Add sheilding to the sheath. Only marginally helpful since a lot of the interference comes form inside the sheath.
-Best, and most expensive way: combine each data/ground pair into a twisted air, and run those 40 bundles inside a sheath, a la Cat5 cable.

Most important rule: use as short a cable as possible. A 12" cable is better than an 18", which is better than a 24". That goes for both round and flat.

If you want to read any of the other 173221 threads we've had on "round vs flat", feel free to use the search.

[frostedflakes]

FWIW, I bought these round cables off SVC.com about a week ago. Brand appears to be Skycable. They are very flexible, unlike the crap round cables that came with my DFI board.

http://www.svc.com/lrc12hd1-blk.html

And is crosstalk interference really an issue with rounded cables? The current traveling through these wires is nothing, probably thousandths of an amp. I can't see how even with their close proximity and minimal shielding it would create enough magnetic interference between wires to do any harm.

I usually don't buy round cables, though. Instead, I round (box?) my flat ribbon cables, by splitting them into eight sets of ten wires, and then stacking them on top of each other. Usually more compact than round cables.

[levander]

If you want to read any of the other 173221 threads we've had on "round vs flat", feel free to use the search.

No, I've been trying to make it clear that I don't care about the debate about round vs. flat. Although, there very well are probably others here who are interested.

I've decided that when round cables first started being sold widely, a lot of people were concerned, and probably rightfully so. However, in the last few years, people have been using them enough and not reporting enough problems that I think they're safe. That's just my opinion.

What I was trying to ask about is those specific PC Toys brand name cables that are just $1 a cable. Although, these peoples experiences with other cheap round IDE cables are interesting.

If you pay the extra $14 a cable for the Antec Cobra's, is the extra shielding or whatever they do with the electronics really worth $14, or are you just paying for a sexy name brand?

[GDukeman]

The only issue I've found is that ANY poorly made cable may be OK at 12 or 18" but cause data errors at 24" which is beyond spec.

Also, if you OC then cables may fail even at 18" if they are poorly made.

@ $1 each you really can't go wrong just trying them out. You may find they work great. One way to test them is to use Seagate's SeaTools DOS software. The Generic Test includes a PIO/DMA compare test which is a cable test that reads data in PIO mode and then in the fastest DMA mode to detect cable failures.

seatools.seagate.com

[levander]

Interesting. I had decided to just forget getting the $1 cables and just purchase some more expensive ones later. But, if I can test the cables myself....

A problem is that I don't know the nature of IDE cables though. I know that some electronics, like CPU's, are "solid state". That if they work out of the box, they almost positively work ten years from now. Unless of course you smash them, or run them to hot, etc.

Would IDE cables be the same way? Or, is it likely that poorly-made cables could deteriorate much faster than well-made cables would?

[GDukeman]

While is is possible for the connector to wire contact to corrode overtime, it is less likely this will happen or cause a failure. Poorly made cables tend to fail immediately, especially under stress.

I would recommend connecting the cables and using DTEMP or SpeedFAN to check the SMART DMA CRC Error count before and after testing. Even though the cable test may pass, subtle error such as forcing the system to retry sending data may show up in the SMART attributes. Use DTEMP again after wards to see if the SMART DMA CRC error count increases or not.