IBM's 180GXP series: 8MB cache + Fluid Dynamic Bearings
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
IBM's 180GXP series: 8MB cache + Fluid Dynamic Bearings
C'T (German magazine) objective noise analysis (for those of you who don't know, these guys are very professional):
drive noise w/o accesses: 0.9 sone.
w/ accesses in "quiet" mode: 1.1 Sone.
in "fast" mode: 1.7 Sone.
For comparison, the Seagate Cuda V: 0.6
1.4
2.7 Sone
Sone is not logarithmic.
drive noise w/o accesses: 0.9 sone.
w/ accesses in "quiet" mode: 1.1 Sone.
in "fast" mode: 1.7 Sone.
For comparison, the Seagate Cuda V: 0.6
1.4
2.7 Sone
Sone is not logarithmic.
Well the major point being that it's much faster than the Barracuda drives, while being only ever so slightly louder at most. C'T has acquired a very good reputation for scientific, precise, well-informed approaches to determining their stats -- I trust them. StorageReview, well, need I say more? It's perhaps ~the~ most renowned storage site in the world. That they both report essentially the same thing about the IBM drive is very reassuring. I'm 90% certain that my soon-to-arrive 180GXP suspended in NoVibes III will be every bit as silent as my Barracuda IV's suspended in NV III. This is very good news for me, as I've become very impatient with Seagate's willingess or perhaps ability to produce large hard drives. 80GB was their largest for far too long, and that they only increased that to 120GB is a very poor showing IMO. I may be the exception, though. Most people don't voraciously consume their HDD space the way I do. And most people are willing to make sacrifices and delete stuff. I guess I'm just a pack-rat.
A bit of bad news maybe. Two users in the same thread @ SR report hearing chirps (like crickets) every 5-10 minutes from their 180GXP drives. In the absence of mitigating information, I'm in a holding pattern in regards to which HDD I'll buy next. Perhaps Maxtor 200GB FDB drives. Suspended in NoVibes, I can't imagine they'll be too audible.
that isn't a happy news... i was actually getting too impatient for the seagate's 8mb sata line....
however it does show from sandra's result that seagate drives are below average as far as the performance is concerned.... but the inconceivable performance offset isn't as important as the audible difference imho.
however it does show from sandra's result that seagate drives are below average as far as the performance is concerned.... but the inconceivable performance offset isn't as important as the audible difference imho.
Well I would set them up in a raid 1 array or a some type of backup setup. I dont consider a one drive solution acceptable for anyone who values the work they do on their computer. If all you do is browse the internet then maybe it doesnt matter if your drive fails, but for me, everything I have on my computer is important and worth protecting, even more than having a quieter computer with one drive.
That's sadly trueJohnMK wrote:A bit of bad news maybe. Two users in the same thread @ SR report hearing chirps (like crickets) every 5-10 minutes from their 180GXP drives.
I'm the owner of a 120GXP and I've experienced those short intrusive buzzing noise (resembling crickets or trapped flies) lasting two second every 10 minutes.
See my post in this forum...
I'm very upset that IBM didn't mention about this periodical noise anywhere in the docs. or in their web site.
Only after contacting them by e-mail they confirmed it was a servicing routine made to enhance the reliability of the drive and they added that can't be disabled
A very upset customer of IBM...
-
- *Lifetime Patron*
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:59 am
- Location: Vancouver BC Canada
All of the IBM drives (about 4 of them, 40-80gb) I bought for systems in 2001 had the exact same condition. once in a while the drive 'chirped'. I've stopped buying them and stopped recommending them. 2 of them failed and went back. Not happy with IBM or Maxtor in the past 2 years. Too many failures. Very happy with Seagate.
I am never again in my life buying IBM harddisks! Not even if they are quieter than Seagates! I bought 2 IBM 80 gig HD's (7200rpm) and they both died within a month! Of course I could've had them both rma'd and replaced for free, but that doesn't bring back my data. I was luckily refunded. I really can't recommend IBM harddisks.
*praises Seagate*
*praises Seagate*
While I cant argue with anyones bad experience, I feel the need to stick up a bit for IBM drives. I have 4 60gxps for about a year and a half now and have never had a problem with them. As far as performance, IBM consistently produces the absolute top performers. I can understand people being wary, but any drive can fail. For those that dont back up data, you are just asking for problems no matter what brand of drive you use.
for those with the cricket harddrives have you tried turning on the acoustic management? i am still undecided on what i should get for my next harddrive.. ('cuda vs 180gxp). i was leaning towards the ibm, but these chirping sounds are making me wonder.
but like nate i have an old school ibm drive.. i think its the 75gxp.. @ 30 gigs and its been in my system for about 3 years w/o any problems or noises.
but like nate i have an old school ibm drive.. i think its the 75gxp.. @ 30 gigs and its been in my system for about 3 years w/o any problems or noises.
-
- Patron of SPCR
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
- Location: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
- Contact:
NateR, it's understood that any drive can fail. However, if you have a high percentage of failing drives, that's a problem. I believe IBM has recently received bad publicity because of this. I might be mistaken (please correct me someone in case I'm wrong) but there was a recent class action lawsuit against IBM for producing drives with a high failure rate.
I had a couple of IBM HDs a couple of years back but had no problems. My personal bad experience was with Fujitsu drives.
Today, I'm 100% Seagate and proud of it! oops, I mean
I had a couple of IBM HDs a couple of years back but had no problems. My personal bad experience was with Fujitsu drives.
Today, I'm 100% Seagate and proud of it! oops, I mean
I agree that a abnormally high amount of failing drives is a big problem. And I also think that if IBM had something to share with us about their drives and didnt, that is very bad business. However, despite personal accounts of failing drives, as of yet I see no conlclusive evidence on the issue. I think the most that can be said is that buyer should beware of the issue.
About the chirping and the (un)reliability of IBM drives: they are related. The early series of the IBM drives we're talking about crashed when they were idling for some time. The seeking arms lubrication would fail because the lubricant got stuck in one place instead of being spread by the movement of the arm. That's why some people never had the problem and some had.
IBM solved the problem with updated firmware that moves the arm backup and forth a couple of times every 10 minutes or so, to get the lubrication spread. Hence the chirping sound that periodically comes from newer IBM disks. The firmware should be available for older drives as well, so check their website or contact support about it. I'm actually surprised that it bothers anyone more than the seeking sound of it, but if they say so, I don't have any experience with them.
This thread made me very interested in the IBM drives (is Hitachi, the new owner of IBM storage division, going to do just as well?), and IBMs story about the firmware updgrade sounds plausible enough for me to jump.
IBM solved the problem with updated firmware that moves the arm backup and forth a couple of times every 10 minutes or so, to get the lubrication spread. Hence the chirping sound that periodically comes from newer IBM disks. The firmware should be available for older drives as well, so check their website or contact support about it. I'm actually surprised that it bothers anyone more than the seeking sound of it, but if they say so, I don't have any experience with them.
This thread made me very interested in the IBM drives (is Hitachi, the new owner of IBM storage division, going to do just as well?), and IBMs story about the firmware updgrade sounds plausible enough for me to jump.
unfortunately for us silent nuts, we undervolt the few fans we do have and such. cooling ibms is the key. i've heard about many 75 gxps that are still living well as secindary drives. they are well cooled. ive also heard about 75gxps that have died many times (like gotten a lot of rma's on one purchase) because they wee not properly cooled. even ibm sayas trhey need a lot of cooling.
Yeah this surprises me too. Without hearing it myself, I'd assume that the sound couldn't be worse than an intense seeking process, and if this is so, is normal seeking itself annoying or not?Gerwin wrote:I'm actually surprised that it bothers anyone more than the seeking sound of it, but if they say so, I don't have any experience with them.
Couldn't find any comparisons between AAM on/off, in terms of noise or performance, which would be interesting too.
One other thing which I've got to ask, what boards/chipsets support drives larger than 137gb? My old BE6-II doesn't stand a chance
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12285
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
- Contact:
RMA'd the last of my IBM 75GXP drives to Hitachi recently -- a 30G 2 platter model at least 2 years old. Bought in the good old days of 3 yr warranties. Somehow the electrical connection seemed intermittent. Took a while to get a drive back. Absentmindedly formatted/installed Win XP a couple days back... then realized today, this thing is REALLY quiet! The 75GXP had been my noisiest drive; all the rest are no 'cudas, so many that's what I did not notice right away.
Side by side with a 'cuda IV single platter: the IBM has just a touch of high frequency whine, while the 'cuda has almost none. WOW! Looked up the model # at Hitachi storage: IC35L030AVV207-0. Turns out to be a 180GXP 1-platter model with FDB bearing.
Very impressed with the low noise level. Haven't heard any chirping yet -- not really sat & used that PC for any length of time, but in a suspension, it makes as little noise as a 'cuda IV 1-platter. It may even have a bit less vibration.
Side by side with a 'cuda IV single platter: the IBM has just a touch of high frequency whine, while the 'cuda has almost none. WOW! Looked up the model # at Hitachi storage: IC35L030AVV207-0. Turns out to be a 180GXP 1-platter model with FDB bearing.
Very impressed with the low noise level. Haven't heard any chirping yet -- not really sat & used that PC for any length of time, but in a suspension, it makes as little noise as a 'cuda IV 1-platter. It may even have a bit less vibration.
Maybe time for review on it for recommended list?MikeC wrote:RMA'd the last of my IBM 75GXP drives to Hitachi recently -- a 30G 2 platter model at least 2 years old. Bought in the good old days of 3 yr warranties. Somehow the electrical connection seemed intermittent. Took a while to get a drive back. Absentmindedly formatted/installed Win XP a couple days back... then realized today, this thing is REALLY quiet! The 75GXP had been my noisiest drive; all the rest are no 'cudas, so many that's what I did not notice right away.
Side by side with a 'cuda IV single platter: the IBM has just a touch of high frequency whine, while the 'cuda has almost none. WOW! Looked up the model # at Hitachi storage: IC35L030AVV207-0. Turns out to be a 180GXP 1-platter model with FDB bearing.
Very impressed with the low noise level. Haven't heard any chirping yet -- not really sat & used that PC for any length of time, but in a suspension, it makes as little noise as a 'cuda IV 1-platter. It may even have a bit less vibration.
I always felt that 180gxp didn't get the attention it needed based on my experience of it. Frankly, I thought the seek noise from cuda IV was louder than IBM. (subjective)
The only possible problem is the temperature of the device when suspended vs cuda IV. those 2-3c difference could make difference without some active cooling when "optimizing" for few hours on such massive beasts.
BTW, you probably haven't noticed that irregular sound coming out of the drive when using since you suspended it. Suspending it does wonders to those occasional hdd random lubrication process (I need to be within a feet to notice that sound without thinking)