Need opinion on the next 1.5TB "green" drive

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:15 pm

I haven't been visiting forums lately. I need to buy two "green" drives, one for OS and one for network storage. Performance is a secondary concern, it's more of a question of reliability.

I've used WD10EACS 00D6B0 with great results in the past, not a single problem. However, as I was looking at customer feedback on WD15EADS drives, it struck me how many negative reviews it has, seems like a lot of people are receiving DOA drives or they die shortly after.

So, I've decided to take a second look at alternatives, my choices are:

1. Western Digital WD15EADS 1.5TB
2. Samsung EcoGreen F2 1.5TB
3. Seagate LP 5900RPM 1.5TB

Ideally, I would also prefer if the drive didn't park its heads in idle because the drives, even the storage one, will be accessed on regular basis and I do not want them to needlessly park/load heads. I'd rather forgo any energy savings to ensure that heads are always loaded.

Does anyone know if any of the above drives park heads in idle? I'm pretty sure that WD15EADS does, but I'm not sure how bad it is compared to WD10EACS/EADS drives, and I have no idea about Samsung and Seagate drives. Also, can anyone comment on reliability of said drives? Or anything else for that matter?

Thanks

whiic · Post by **whiic** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:23 pm

Recommended reading:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Sa ... en_HD502HI
http://www.silentpcreview.com/wd-green- ... line-500gb

I don't know about 1.5TB low-power Seagate, but as 500GB got pretty much beaten by 2TB Greenpower, I really wouldn't take it strongly in consideration. Downscaled 1.5 Greenpower is probably quieter, upscaled 1.5 Seagate is probably noisier... making already pwning Greenpower pwn a lot more.

Of course 500GB low-power Seagate may have less sturdy cast, and thus with more platters, it might not be noisier than 1-platter variant. Theoretically it can be even quieter ...or VERY noisy as a worst case scenario. Anyway, the odds are ...bad. Greenpower is a safer bet, no matter how you look at it.

But 1.5TB F2 is a valid option. 500GB F2 reviewed by SPCR was a phenomenally quiet drive. I have a 1000GB F2 and I can tell it't probably on par with some 2-platter laptop drives like 320GB WD Scorpio (though this laptop drive is definitely not the quietest 5400rpm lappy drive available). Still, 2-platter variant, "pretty darn quiet" even if not as good as 500GB. If 1.0->1.5TB scales as well as 0.5->1.0TB, 1.5TB is no doubt going to have the best idle of the bunch.

BUT...

Seek noise of F2 is quite obtrusive. It might not be worse than typical HDD, but lack of idle noise really makes it stand out. WDs have the best sound management around: set it to AAM disabled, it's very reasonable, on par with most other manufacturer's drives with AAM enabled. Enable it, and you won't even hear it seeking.

Greenpower has some negative aspects:
- slightly more idle noise than F2.
- odd buzzing and hissing noises while reading some areas (I've noticed it on several 1st and 2nd gen GPs so it's not a failing drive)
- load/unloads aren't quite as muted as normal seeks
- you might want to increase unload timer from 8 seconds to something a little longer, to prevent frequent unloads

Samsung is, AFAIK contact-start/stop, so no unloads can occur. Seagate probably is too but I aint certain as these low-rpm models are new.

I don't think unload count is a hazard. Unloading during idling can also improve reliability. It's just best to keep unload frequency moderate... this means, untick temperature monitoring of specific HDDs in SpeedFan, and disable all other utilities that make periodic SMART polling to HDDs as well.

Old Greenpowers were more power-efficient than 5400rpm Samsungs but current (= 3rd) generation Greenpowers use more juice idling than old ones, where as Samsung has an opposite trend, making them pretty much tie in power consumption. No preference here.

___

My conclusive recommendation would probably be Samsung. Why? Well, there's point in favour of GP and different points in favour of F2. There's one point I didn't mention yet, and it't in favour of F2:
you can never know what platters and how many are used in 1500GB Greenpower where as Samsung uses 3x 500GB.

If you buy WD, you might get a partially defective 2TB with disabled head and shortstroked to 1.5TB: increased performance but increased noise,
or 1.5TB made with 4x 375 GB platters instead of 500GB/platter resulting in increased noise and reduced performance...
or you might get what you expect and that is 3x 500GB.

The first option is rather unlikely but last two are both possible.

Samsung F2 1.5TB is their flagship, so they can't use lower density or have disabled heads or shortstroking.

SleepyBum · Post by **SleepyBum** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:54 pm

I agree with what whiic said. The WD and the Seagate might have issues because they're using gimped 4-platters. The platters that didn't pass for the 2.0TB version, are probably being used for the 1.5TB version, after they disable the defective sectors. That's probably why people are having some issues with them.

But I think WD is transitioning to 500GB platters across all their drives now. 2-platter 1TB green version have appeared, and the 1.5TB have been out of stock at a lot of retailers for several weeks now.

I also own a 1TB F2, while it's very quiet it does make a really weird noise at startup. Also, the seeks are audible during writes. It's not loud, but you can hear it make a soft *bom**bom**bom*. This was when I had it out when I was first formatting/copying to it. You probably won't hear it in a case from 2ft+, though. Also the Samsung doesn't have that head offload, which is a plus in some cases. I don't think Seagate LP has that head offload either, but not sure.

Maybe get the Seagate 1.0TB for the OS drive, since that is a 2-platter HD, and has some extra speed, which might help.

The thing about these drives is that they're pretty new (except the WD greens), so there isn't much reviews/experiences with them yet. I plan to buy a couple of the Samsung F2 1.5TB when the prices on them fall some more.

kal001 · Post by **kal001** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:02 pm

whiic wrote: http://www.silentpcreview.com/wd-green- ... line-500gb

I don't know about 1.5TB low-power Seagate, but as 500GB got pretty much beaten by 2TB Greenpower, I really wouldn't take it strongly in consideration.

Those review you posted, is not Barracuda LP!, but the different drive with different platters.

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:15 am

I wasn't aware that Seagate and WD might be using shortstroked 4 platter design in their 1.5TB drives. I always thought those were guaranteed to have three 500GB platters. Can anyone really confirm it?

SleepyBum wrote: I also own a 1TB F2, while it's very quiet it does make a really weird noise at startup. Also, the seeks are audible during writes. It's not loud, but you can hear it make a soft *bom**bom**bom*. This was when I had it out when I was first formatting/copying to it. You probably won't hear it in a case from 2ft+, though. Also the Samsung doesn't have that head offload, which is a plus in some cases. I don't think Seagate LP has that head offload either, but not sure.

I don't really care about startup noise. However, I was reading forums and I saw in F2 thread that F2 drives make the same sound during normal operation as well. It is kind of disconcerting to me. I had a "meowing" Hitachi 250GB drive which was supposed to be normal, it died on me in a couple of months (luckily I was able to save most of my files). Replacement Hitachi did not meow and was working fine until I retired it.

Seek noise isn't a concern to me either, in fact I prefer to hear muted seek noises because it lets me know when drive is doing something. I'm too lazy to look down on the HDD activity led

especially since it's hard to see on P180 case.

As of right now I'm leaning towards F2 drive, I have had two 2504C and one HD321KJ and they were wonderful drives. The only issue keeping me at bay is that weird noise during operation. Well, I still have couple of weeks before I buy, maybe we'll get new info before then.

kal001 · Post by **kal001** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:45 am

JazzJackRabbit wrote:I wasn't aware that Seagate and WD might be using shortstroked 4 platter design in their 1.5TB drives. I always thought those were guaranteed to have three 500GB platters. Can anyone really confirm it?

On the Seagate side, it is absolutely clear. Seagate has the number of platers in the model name. So you know, what you are buying, with every Seagate drive.

For example:
ST3500418 means 1 platter drive
ST3100528 means 2 platter drive

So your Barracuda LP 1.5TB:
ST31500541AS has 4 platters.

On the WD side, nobody knows. They usually change platter size and number of platters, but the model name remain the same, because their naming scheme do not cover these informations. You have to know last 6 additional letters to distinguish older a newer drives and even than, you dont know anything, until you find somewhere on the forum, that WD10EADS-"ABCDEF" means newer revision

SleepyBum wrote: I also own a 1TB F2, while it's very quiet it does make a really weird noise at startup.

I can confirm, that this weird noise at startup is a common behaviour, according to many owners of F2 Eco drives.

PS: in real world test like copy amount o files from one drive to another, WD drives are faster than competition.

whiic · Post by **whiic** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:46 am

"I wasn't aware that Seagate and WD might be using shortstroked 4 platter design in their 1.5TB drives."

It's always possible with anything less than biggest of said manufacturer's capacity point.

Since WD uses 4 platters to make 2TB, they could use 4 lower capacity platters to make 1.5TB. They use whatever is more cost-effective: less-dense platter are cheaper but with lower density comes more components (not just platters but R/W heads with sliders as well).

With Samsung, it's pretty much guaranteed that 1.5TB is 3-platter as there's no known Samsung drives with 4 platters. Sure, they could make a 4-platter drive but if they did, they'd probably do so to achieve 2.0TB instead of cutting costs on 1.5TB. Cutting costs by developing something new, is not a viable option.

"However, I was reading forums and I saw in F2 thread that F2 drives make the same sound during normal operation as well."

My 1TB F2 does not make any during normal operation. During start up, it buzzes for a loooooong period of time but after it finishes, it stays quiet.

"I had a "meowing" Hitachi 250GB drive which was supposed to be normal"

Early 7K250 did that. Perfectly normal and part of HDD internal safety routines.

"it died on me in a couple of months"

Unrelated to the noise.

"Replacement Hitachi did not meow"

Either a late 7K250 with better firmware (makes a low buzzing noise every 10 minutes, instead of the screchy meowing), or maybe you got a T7K250. Well, if it died within a few months, T7K250 wasn't out yet.

SleepyBum · Post by **SleepyBum** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:19 pm

Like kal001 stated, if you know how to decode Seagate model numbers, you can tell the number of patters each drive has very easily. For WD, you need to look at other specs to determine platters.

The other specs that can show the number platters are weight and power usage. More platters = more weight and more power usage.

Let's take a look at
WD Green series specs pdf

Looking at the weight you can see:

Code: Select all

Weight (lb./kg, Â± 10%)

WD20EADS    WD15EADS (4-platters)
1.61/0.73   1.61/0.73

WD10EADS    WD7500AADS (3-platters)
1.39/0.63   1.39/0.63

WD6400AACS  WD5000AACS (2-platters)
1.32/0.60   1.32/0.60

Power usage has the same similarities.

But there's also several revisions in the same model, denoted by the sub-model number. Example of the 1.0TB:

WD10EACS-00ZJB0 (4-platters 16MB cache)
WD10EACS-00D6B0 (3-platters 16MB cache)
WD10EADS-00L5B1 (3-platters 32MB cache)
WD10EADS-65L5B1 (3-platters 32MB cache)
WD10EADS-00M2B0 (2-platters 32MB cache)

My Samsung F2 1TB haven't made any weird noised during operation, only during startup. I think there's only been 1 or 2 reports of noise during operation that I've seen here on SPCR. I think they might have just gotten bad drives. Only noise that I've experienced is that muffled seek/write sound.

RaptorX · Post by **RaptorX** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:09 am

Check out the model numbers on Caviar Green 1.5TB and 2.0TB

WD20EADS-00R6B0
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article927-page4.html

WD15EADS-00R6B0
http://media.bestofmicro.com/5/7/214027 ... 20pers.jpg

Moreover if you look at the transfer rate graphs you'll see the 2.0 TB model reach ~70MB/s at around the 1.5TB mark. That's exactly the throuput of the 1.5TB model near it's capacity mark.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/1.5 ... 331-4.html

It's pretty clear that the 1.5TB model is using 4 short-stroked platters.[/url]

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:40 am

Seems like I'm going to take my chances with Samsung. I don't like parking thing on WD and the fact that they use 4 platters instead of 3 is disappointing, Seagate has been slipping lately, and it seems it's also using 4 platters.

There is negative feedback on F2 EcoGreen drives, but I've had good experience with 2504C and 321KJ, so hopefully I will be alright.

oldchinese · Post by **oldchinese** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:59 am

Hi JazzJackRabbit,

if you don't mind loud reading/writing sound,you can buy Samsung F2HDSI.
I found it is lounder than typical-Seagate t,notthe power-on one but regular movement.
Although the power on spin-up is quite weird (machine gun-like),but it is only once per power on,so not a big deal.
As to the vibration is normal idle spindle sound is almost none. very good.
Regards

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:43 am

Thanks, I already got Samsung 154UI drives. They do make loud calibration sound on startup, but not during operation, I can live with that. I'm not bothered by seeks and idle noise is in line with WD GreenPower, so I'm satisfied with new Samsungs.

oldchinese · Post by **oldchinese** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:06 pm

Hi JazzJackRabbit,
I only bought Samsung 103SI(F21TB Silencier) don't know 154UI.However 103SI was very loud in most respects except quiet motor spindle(when idle) while WD is always louder in spindle noise."hiss"

I wonder which WD GP has made seek idle noise you mentioned?I also had WD10EADS.It was sending electronic current-like "hiss" when,I guess, 8 second head parking activates but fail to settle the parking.I assume it was a product defect,and waiting for a replacement.Apart from that it is absolutely quiet including power on,read/write and spindle.
Cheers

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:48 am

As I said before I don't think my WD10EACS-00D6B0 drives ever parked their heads, and I never pay attention to seek noise unless it's really really and I mean really obtrusive. So I can't help you here.

notslow · Post by **notslow** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:12 pm

JazzJackRabbit wrote:I haven't been visiting forums lately. I need to buy two "green" drives, one for OS and one for network storage. Performance is a secondary concern, it's more of a question of reliability.

I've used WD10EACS 00D6B0 with great results in the past, not a single problem. However, as I was looking at customer feedback on WD15EADS drives, it struck me how many negative reviews it has, seems like a lot of people are receiving DOA drives or they die shortly after.

So, I've decided to take a second look at alternatives, my choices are:

1. Western Digital WD15EADS 1.5TB
2. Samsung EcoGreen F2 1.5TB
3. Seagate LP 5900RPM 1.5TB

Ideally, I would also prefer if the drive didn't park its heads in idle because the drives, even the storage one, will be accessed on regular basis and I do not want them to needlessly park/load heads. I'd rather forgo any energy savings to ensure that heads are always loaded.

Does anyone know if any of the above drives park heads in idle? I'm pretty sure that WD15EADS does, but I'm not sure how bad it is compared to WD10EACS/EADS drives, and I have no idea about Samsung and Seagate drives. Also, can anyone comment on reliability of said drives? Or anything else for that matter?

Thanks

Are there any other programs that will access the smart info all the time like speedfan? I have speedfan and am going to turn off hard drive temp monitoring. Not sure if anything else on my system is a problem. I have the old wd10eacs drives. I'm running W7 and don't have raid. Should I install WDIDLE?

Thanks, Will

ces · Post by **ces** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:23 pm

JazzJackRabbit wrote:I haven't been visiting forums lately. I need to buy two "green" drives, one for OS and one for network storage. Performance is a secondary concern, it's more of a question of reliability.

I've used WD10EACS 00D6B0 with great results in the past, not a single problem. However, as I was looking at customer feedback on WD15EADS drives, it struck me how many negative reviews it has, seems like a lot of people are receiving DOA drives or they die shortly after.

So, I've decided to take a second look at alternatives, my choices are:

I read once that the best way to avoid DOA drives is to buy them locally where they have been shipped as part of larger shipments to a real store. Supposedly the small shipments of one or two drives are subject to more shipping trauma and variable quality in packing.

So I never order my hard drives online. Don't know if that helps, but it does give me a better sense of security.

Xad · Post by **Xad** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:18 am

JazzJackRabbit wrote:I don't really care about startup noise. However, I was reading forums and I saw in F2 thread that F2 drives make the same sound during normal operation as well. It is kind of disconcerting to me.

I have a 1.5tb Samsung HD154UI and it makes those noises. It's my secondary storage drive and i've noticed that even when it's not in use at all, it makes the same noise it makes during startup, every hour or so but instead of 15 seconds, it lasts about 3 seconds.

Is that normal? Anyone else notice this on their Samsung 1.5tb? It makes me very nervous, more so after i contacted Samsung and the they replied by saying it could be a fault, but i translated that as the customer service person not being 100% sure (via email).

Anyone have any idea why it makes the noise and why constantly? I would have no problem at all if it made noise while in use, it's fairly quite actually, but when it's not even used at all, and no files are being written or read (checked with FileMon), it still makes the startup type noise. I'm not too fussed about the startup noise, but this noise that i described is making me nervous. Should i be, or is this normal?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:41 am

Welcome to SPCR!

Parappaman · Post by **Parappaman** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:52 am

Xad wrote:
JazzJackRabbit wrote:I don't really care about startup noise. However, I was reading forums and I saw in F2 thread that F2 drives make the same sound during normal operation as well. It is kind of disconcerting to me.
I have a 1.5tb Samsung HD154UI and it makes those noises. It's my secondary storage drive and i've noticed that even when it's not in use at all, it makes the same noise it makes during startup, every hour or so but instead of 15 seconds, it lasts about 3 seconds.

Is that normal? Anyone else notice this on their Samsung 1.5tb? It makes me very nervous, more so after i contacted Samsung and the they replied by saying it could be a fault, but i translated that as the customer service person not being 100% sure (via email).

Anyone have any idea why it makes the noise and why constantly? I would have no problem at all if it made noise while in use, it's fairly quite actually, but when it's not even used at all, and no files are being written or read (checked with FileMon), it still makes the startup type noise. I'm not too fussed about the startup noise, but this noise that i described is making me nervous. Should i be, or is this normal?

I have the same issue, doesn't seem to bring any problem though, so I've learned to live with it.

Xad · Post by **Xad** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:20 pm

Parappaman wrote:
Xad wrote:I have a 1.5tb Samsung HD154UI and it makes those noises. It's my secondary storage drive and i've noticed that even when it's not in use at all, it makes the same noise it makes during startup, every hour or so but instead of 15 seconds, it lasts about 3 seconds.

Is that normal? Anyone else notice this on their Samsung 1.5tb? It makes me very nervous, more so after i contacted Samsung and the they replied by saying it could be a fault, but i translated that as the customer service person not being 100% sure (via email).

Anyone have any idea why it makes the noise and why constantly? I would have no problem at all if it made noise while in use, it's fairly quite actually, but when it's not even used at all, and no files are being written or read (checked with FileMon), it still makes the startup type noise. I'm not too fussed about the startup noise, but this noise that i described is making me nervous. Should i be, or is this normal?
I have the same issue, doesn't seem to bring any problem though, so I've learned to live with it.

Phew! That's quite a relief

Have you had your drive for long? I've only had it for about a month so wasn't sure whether it was normal. I know the startup noise is normal though.

I wish Samsung would add some info in their troubleshooting or something to explain why that happens or at the very least explain it to their customer services so they can pass it on to worried customers. Other than that little scare, pretty happy with the drive

Parappaman · Post by **Parappaman** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:27 am

14 months and counting. I bought it a week after it was released in my country.

Need opinion on the next 1.5TB "green" drive

Need opinion on the next 1.5TB "green" drive

if you don't mind loud reading/writing sound,Samgsung is ok!

What model of WD-GP with seeks and idle noise you mentione

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