Need help with HSF decisions

rogun · Post by **rogun** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:32 am

Hi guys,

I've read all the recommended reading, and I've searched the forum, but I'm still not sure what to do about my extremely noisy Volcano 7 HSF. Normally I'd just replace it with a model on the recommended list without hesitation, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of removing the HSF from my Athlon XP 1700+ cpu. Because these processors can so easily be destroyed, I've made it a point to not remove the existing HSF once applied (and since I've never done it, I'm unsure how difficult it actually is to do with these processors.) So I'm looking for suggestions on whether to replace the entire HSF or just replace the fan with a less noisy model. I'm also wondering if this HSF could be silenced some by removing the fancy Thermaltake finger plate (i.e. woud this increase airflow enough to allow it to run slower?)

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Bob_the_lost · Post by **Bob_the_lost** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:50 am

I wouldn't worry too much about removing the HSF, for a start even if it goes wrong the CPU won't cost more to replace than you'd spend on a good night down the pub. A 2500M (excellent quiet computing component) costs around £50 ($75) and that'd be a massive step up for you. To replace your CPU would be easy.

Also if you're careful then you should't damage anything. Take it slowly, make sure you have lots of room and read up on it first. (more or less as you are doing here.)

I just pulled mine off and stuck a new one on (there was already thermal paste there so i didn't bother with more, yes, i'm was an idiot)

rogun · Post by **rogun** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:01 pm

Thanks Bob! I'm beginning to agree with you, although one reason I'm so skeptical about doing it is because I don't have the $75 for a new processor.

I'm looking at the Zalman CNPS7000B-AlCu, which I assume is atleast as good as the 'A' version, if not better. What do you think?

Big Pimp Daddy · Post by **Big Pimp Daddy** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:42 pm

Hello there,
as Bob said, it's really not that hard to change a skt A heatsink without damaging anything. If you're really worried about it then make sure you hold the heatsink completely flat on the core (harder to do with heatsinks that use the clips instead of the motherboard mounting holes) and it will be almost imposible to chip it. I haven't used the Volcano 7, but according to the interweb it uses an 80mm fan, which looks as if it can easily be changed. Even if this is not the case, you can remove the fingerguard thing and zip-tie a quiet 80mm fan on top of it. If you want to save cash, then replacing the stock fan (rated at a painfull 39dB!) with a nexus or panaflo will easily be the cheapest solution. I don't know if a low air-flow fan will provide acceptable cooling with that heatsink, if it doesn't then you can always get a new heatsink and stick the fan on that. It's win/win really.

PS Personally I wouldn't go with the zalman, as it's difficult to change the fan and even at 5v it makes a noticeable noise. Of course it would still be a great improvement over the Volcano.

rogun · Post by **rogun** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:57 pm

Hey, thanks BPD!

The Volcano 7 does use clips, but I think I can manage. I just remember all the early reviews of the XP processors where guys were ruining them because it doesn't have the casing? over the die.

The fan on the Volcano 7 can be easily changed, but I'm wondering if it's worth it? I have a panaflo, but I was worried that it might not be sufficient in keeping the temperature down. If so, then I might just try that first and wait on replacing the heatsink, because I can live with higher temperatures (it runs at no more than 44° during full load right now.) However, would you have a suggestion for a better fan? And what HSF would you suggest instead of the Zalman?

I really appreciate the help. This thing just screams, and I've hated it ever since I've had it, but it's gotten to the point where I just can't take it anymore...

It sounds like someone's using a leaf blower in my machine, but I don't actually have that many leaves in there.

Weldingheart · Post by **Weldingheart** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:48 pm

My first socket A HSF removal also a nervous sweatdropping experience, but after that,and read this guide: Socket A AMD Processor Installation Guide I begin well comfort engage and discard those coolers.

rogun wrote: The fan on the Volcano 7 can be easily changed, but I'm wondering if it's worth it? I have a panaflo, but I was worried that it might not be sufficient in keeping the temperature down. If so, then I might just try that first and wait on replacing the heatsink, because I can live with higher temperatures (it runs at no more than 44° during full load right now.) However, would you have a suggestion for a better fan? And what HSF would you suggest instead of the Zalman?

You can live with higher temp, 44C is far away from the critical one,(see proc electrical specification link for the max temp),unless you're die hard benchmarking for SuperCoolLowTempMark2005.

Btw people here at spcr are used to live with higher temp compared to the "lowest temp as possible people" outhere for the trade of lower noise.

For a new hsf(if you really need to change instead of just change the fan to panaflo), I'll go for Scythe Katana or TR XP/SI-97.

rogun · Post by **rogun** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:05 am

Thanks for the suggestions Weldingheart. That helps a lot!

I'll probably end up buying a new HSF eventually, because the ones you mentioned, as well as the Zalman, are surely much better, and lighter, than the Volcano 7. After looking at your suggestions, I'm not sure which to go with yet, but one benefit with the Zalman is that it includes the fanmate (though I imagine these can be purchased seperately, which I may do if the price is right.) I'll probably try slapping a panaflo on my current HSF for now, but do you know of a good place to buy heatsinks and fans for when the time comes?

Big Pimp Daddy · Post by **Big Pimp Daddy** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:36 am

rogun wrote:do you know of a good place to buy heatsinks and fans for when the time comes?

Whereabouts in the world are you? If you fill in your location in your profile, it makes things much easier.
If you have a "made in japan" Panaflo L1A, there really aren't any vastly better fans, it's quite loud at 12v, but undervolted it's very quiet. Remember you don't need a fanmate to supply lower voltages, you can get 12, 7 and 5 volts direct from a molex connector.
As Weldingheart said, you have a lot of temperature headroom still, and if you're dead set on getting a new heatsink, a Thermalright or Scythe will do the job admirably.

Weldingheart · Post by **Weldingheart** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:16 am

Glad to help pal

Well I might also suggest Zalman 7000, it's still damn best one outhere. Besides,you can purchase it with lower price nowadays compared to TR/Scythe, plus it got its own fan and fanmate.

However,if someday you reach the point of no return: "I want more silence!"; the lowest/quietest setting of fan-mated Zalman fan might not quiet enough for you since it got ball bearings fan on it.
You may have to take the hassle to change the original fan by quieter fans like nexus,instead you'll tend to get lots easier to change the fan on Scythe or TR.

I got Katana for my socket A built because I couln't find 7000 anymore around my area (the distributor chose to stock newer ones like 7700&9500 here those apparently not for socket A). Surely I also planned to get 7000 before,since none beat its price/performance.

About where to get heatsinks&fans it depends on your location. For sure you can check SPCR sponsors on mainpage. However,if you're lucky you can find great deal of cheap good stuffs in Deals, Vendors & Classifieds forum

Go ahead with undervolted panflo first,happy silencing.[/url]

rogun · Post by **rogun** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:25 am

I guess knowing my location would help, eh?

I'm in the USA.

Rewiring the molex connector is an idea that I'll consider, but I've been trying to stay away from rigging molex connectors, because I don't like loose connections in my machine and I'm not that good with molex connectors (I've rewired a few in the past, but I never felt comfortable with the quality of the connection. I know you can buy cheap throwaway extensions, but I don't want the hassle.) Also, I really like the idea of being able to adjust the fan speed manually with ease, so that I can ramp it up if necessary. I just checked the price at newegg and $6 for a fanmate controller isn't going to kill me, so I'll probably end up going with the Scythe, since it includes a more powerful fan and I may end up needing more airflow than what the panaflo provides in the future.

I can't thank you guys enough! I'm really excited about getting back to the days when I could use my computer without having to sacrifice the ambiance of the surrounding I use it in. My pc is a mid-tower case on my desk (I don't have space on the floor, unfortunately), so I'm bombarded with noise directed right at me. It used to not bother me much, but now I just want it to shut up!

rogun · Post by **rogun** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:32 am

Oh, I do have one more question. After removing my current HSF, should I clean the die with alcohol to remove the old thermalpaste? I'm a little wary about touching the thing, since it doesn't have the casing that older processors had.

Dane · Post by **Dane** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:00 am

Definitely - I use IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol - anything over 70% purity is great) and apply it with cotton buds. Be patient and try to get all of the gunk off, as this will greatly improve the thermal dissipation of your new HS and paste.

If you do use something like cotton buds (You chaps in America might call them something else) then give the processor a wipe with a lint-free cloth damped with a little IPA as the final act before applying the new paste - this will pick up any cotton fibres which have got snagged on the core. I use a lens cleaning cloth for spectacles.

Let the IPA dry/evaporate for a few minutes then apply as fine and even a layer of new paste as possible. If whatever heatsink you get has a rougher surface finish then use a slightly thicker layer (remember you only need enough to fill the imperfections left by the machining on the heatsink surface).

As far as a new heatsink I've been delighted with my TR SI-97 - but it may be overkill for your cpu (I don't know how they compare heat-wise). If your chip isn't too hot then the arctic-cooling heatsinks are very good value for money and by all accounts pretty quiet, though they do struggle with hotter chips.

Hope this helps,

Dane

Oh yeah - before removing your old HSF you may want to put some load on the cpu and get it nice and hot, as this'll make removing it much easier.

Weldingheart · Post by **Weldingheart** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:14 am

rogun wrote:I guess knowing my location would help, eh? I'm in the USA.
.......
I can't thank you guys enough! I'm really excited about getting back to the days when I could use my computer without having to sacrifice the ambiance of the surrounding I use it in. My pc is a mid-tower case on my desk (I don't have space on the floor, unfortunately), so I'm bombarded with noise directed right at me. It used to not bother me much, but now I just want it to shut up!

Oops didn't see that

I also get my midtower case placed almost next to me on the desk (i can loose its side panel by right hand without move from my chair), the problem is it got thin steel construction so it acts like acoustic guitar body, also the front intake, I'll do dampening with DIY silicon rubber&foam then....

About clean the die, of course you have to, since if you don't clean it properly& just reaplly new thermal compund there should be trapped air which lower its capability/higher thermal resistance.

Just clean it with alcohol(95% if you can get one)or acetone by 'soild' cloth, I found it's safe enough to use cotton bud as long as the cotton do not seed its fibers upon the core.

Also reapply thermal compund well,not too thick,if you are going to use Arctic Silvers then just follow the instructions on their homepage.Some metal contained thermal compound may cause short if it 'spills'.

The casing you mentioned,I believe is the Integrated Heat Spreader.
Well the socket A CPU core is not protected with IHS,but it's safe if you are careful and properly go through th instructions.
What kind of damage would you suppose?

rogun · Post by **rogun** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:51 am

Weldingheart wrote: Oops didn't see that

If you mean my location, I just changed it, so you didn't miss anything.

I also get my midtower case placed almost next to me on the desk (i can loose its side panel by right hand without move from my chair), the problem is it got thin steel construction so it acts like acoustic guitar body, also the front intake, I'll do dampening with DIY silicon rubber&foam then....

That's one thing I can say about my old Enlight case is that it does use heavy steel. I don't how thick it is exactly, but it's the thickest case in my house, other than an old, full-sized, AT Gateway tower that I can't make myself part with. This may be a good reason to stick with what I have, but then the case I'm considering (Antec SLK3000B) probably isn't too thin. I have a similiar Antec case with nearly the exact setup as in my Enlight and it's much, much more quiet. The Enlight would be fine if only it wasn't so noisy, but I'm sort of wanting to upgrade to a new case to match my black monitor anyway.

About clean the die, of course you have to, since if you don't clean it properly& just reaplly new thermal compund there should be trapped air which lower its capability/higher thermal resistance.

Right and the casing I referred to is the Integrated Heat Spreader, so you're right again (I couldn't remember what it was called and I'm too lazy to look it up.) The reason I seem overly worried about damaging the core is because I remember several reviewers complaining about the delicacy of the Athlon XP processor when they originally came out. There were a lot of close-up pictures showing where they had damaged the core by exchaning the HSF too often (some even destroyed their samples) and some were suggesting that it could only be done a few times before destroying it. I've installed dozens of heatsinks before, but after reading about the problems with the removed IHS on the Athlon XP processors, I made the decision then to make a choice and stick with it. However, now that I know that's no longer a big concern, I'm not going to worry about it any longer.

Just clean it with alcohol(95% if you can get one)or acetone by 'soild' cloth, I found it's safe enough to use cotton bud as long as the cotton do not seed its fibers upon the core.

I have some 90% iso alcohol, acetone, and plenty of dry B-D cotton swabs that I use for such purposes, so that won't be a problem.

Thanks for everything!

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:55 pm

The chipped T Bred thing worried me enough I drilled holes and attached L brackets to my HSF so I could bolt down rather than trust the clip thingy.