AMD Phenom replace stock cooler

[kamelie1706]

hi,

I have:
- Coolermaster elite 360 with it seems 123mm to play with inside

- I have a fan above the cpu attached on the case (Arctic F12 Pro PWM - 120mm - Dim 120 x 120 x 34 mm)
- My Cpu is a AMD Phenom II x4 B50 @ 3.10GHz (only 3 cores active)

I need to change the stock fan to manage the extra core under load and get more silent fan. Budget is around/below 30e.

I have the following option:
- Remove the case fan & get Scythe Samurai ZZ SCSMZ-2000 using the heatsink fan
- Keep the case fan and use Scythe Samurai ZZ SCSMZ-2000 without fan
- Keep the case fan and use the Scythe BIG shuriken

Is the Samurai Dim 94 x 122 x 94 mm / 3.7 x 4.8 x 3.7 in including the fan (25mm height)?

What would be the more efficient from cooling point?

Any alternative proposal?
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 or Scythe Ninja Mini or Cooler Master Geminii S?

Thanks!

[jhhoffma]

Xigmatek HDT-S1283 or Scythe Ninja Mini

Yes and yes...

[kamelie1706]

Just realize that the Xigmatek HDT-S1283 actually does not fit.

For the mini ninja it is the same choice (without the fan case) as the height is 115mm.

[Fire-Flare]

I'd get the Big Shuriken but the fans Scythe uses for their Shuriken models are only 10mm thick and don't push much air. They push enough to work but you can get better performance by replacing its fan with a 25mm thick PWM model.

You'll have plenty of room to spare.

[kamelie1706]

Thanks,

Fan is not a problem as I have a bunch of "Arctic F12 Pro PWM - 120mm" I could start with.

What is the performance versus the stock fan?

[quest_for_silence]

I have a fan above the cpu attached on the case

Is it an exhaust or an intake one?
Which are your temps without it?

Remove the case fan & get Scythe Samurai ZZ SCSMZ-2000 using the heatsink fan

It seems to me the more rational option, with reference to quietness (and maybe to cooling power).

Any alternative proposal?
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 or Scythe Ninja Mini or Cooler Master Geminii S?

The only one which fits is the Gemini IIS, and it is somewhat inferior to the ZZ (but not at the 16dB level), with reference to the cooling power.

[kamelie1706]

I found this one also SILVERSTONE NT06-E.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/ ... t06-e&area

I found some test showing it perform better than the big shuriken ....

[kamelie1706]

I have a fan above the cpu attached on the case

Is it an exhaust or an intake one?
Which are your temps without it?

on the top intake toward the cpu
on the the right side (looking at the box at horizontal position from the front) exhaust (another 120mm fan)
Airflow goes Top IN -> CPU -> Right OUT

I get around 35-40 degrees (C) at idle.
When stressing the 3 cores (e.g. generate picture with Sweethome3D => 3 cores 100%) it takes less than 30sec to reach the limit (70 degrees C) and computer shutdown.

I have not tried to unplug the fans

Do you see something wrong already there?

I do not know which version of the stock fan I got as I bought my CPU second hand and it was originally 2 cores.

[quest_for_silence]

I found this one also SILVERSTONE NT06-E.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/ ... t06-e&area

I found some test showing it perform better than the big shuriken ....

I'm wondering why people here don't read SPCR own tests.

First of all, the NT06E won't fit your measures, unless passively.
Passively NT06E won't handle your x4 B50.
Eventually at low noise levels it performs worse than any low profile Scythe (however, the Big Shuriken isn't "the great pre...former", but it's just quiet and small and perform well at low airflow, that's when inaudible).
Last but not least, until you got a deal, that NT06E won't come for under 30 (usually almost twice this sum).

You have no better all around than the Scythe Samurai ZZ, currently.

[quest_for_silence]

When stressing the 3 cores (e.g. generate picture with Sweethome3D => 3 cores 100%) it takes less than 30sec to reach the limit (70 degrees C) and computer shutdown.

There are some problems: the stock heatsink should be perfectly able to handle a stress test, loudly but perfectly.
Does the CPU run as X2 550 also shutdown when stressed (only two cores active)?
If not, does the shutdown occur even outside the case (three cores active)? If so, re-install the heatsink with a fresh good TIM and retry: if eventually it still fails, more probably that not the third core is defective and cannot be unlocked safely.

Do you have any other component overheat?

Do you see something wrong already there?

If the AC above the CPU is an intake, no I don't see anything wrong.

[kamelie1706]

I'm wondering why people here don't read SPCR own tests.

I'm wondering why people here don't read SPCR own tests.
Missed it as it did not show up in first pages of googles ... at least for me

First of all, the NT06E won't fit your measures, unless passively.

Dim 123mm (W) x 82mm (H) x 149mm (D)
Height seems lower than ZZ

Eventually at low noise levels it performs worse than any low profile Scythe (however, the Big Shuriken isn't "the great pre...former", but it's just quiet and small and perform well at low airflow, that's when inaudible).
Last but not least, until you got a deal that NT06E won't come for under 30 (usually almost twice this sum).
You have no better all around than the Scythe Samurai ZZ, currently.

Fair enought! Thanks for answering

[quest_for_silence]

Missed it as it did not show up in first pages of googles

Onto SPCR Home Page there's the internal Google-powered SPCR search engine: the relevant NT06E SPCR test is the second or third result of the first SERP (Search Engine Results Page), or so I mean.

Dim 123mm (W) x 82mm (H) x 149mm (D)
Height seems lower than ZZ

If I'm not wrong, the height is 82mm without any fan: this is why I've written "unless passively".

[kamelie1706]

Dim 123mm (W) x 82mm (H) x 149mm (D)
Height seems lower than ZZ

If I'm not wrong, the height is 82mm without any fan: this is why I've written "unless passively".

So the Samurai Dim 94 x 122 x 94 mm / 3.7 x 4.8 x 3.7 includes the fan (25mm height)?

There are some problems: the stock heatsink should be perfectly able to handle a stress test, loudly but perfectly.
Does the CPU run as X2 550 also shutdown when stressed (only two cores active)?
If not, does the shutdown occur even outside the case (three cores active)? If so, re-install the heatsink with a fresh good TIM and retry: if eventually it still fails, more probably that not the third core is defective and cannot be unlocked safely.

I will do more test when back home but you might get a point here. I bought it used and I did not change the thermal paste.
As far as I remember with 2 cores I have not reached the 70C limit even when converting video.

Do you have any other component overheat?

2 DDR3 RAM Kingston
1 SSD hardrive Kingston
2 500GB hadrive WD (not used intensively)
no extension cards (I am using internal graphic component)
=> Only component I could see overheating during the test is the integrated component of my mother board

[quest_for_silence]

So the Samurai Dim 94 x 122 x 94 mm / 3.7 x 4.8 x 3.7 includes the fan (25mm height)?

Yes: check it out:



It's the ZZ inside a SG-07, which has 117mm of clearance for the CPU heatsink (SPCR tests are made for us, it's very useful to give them a reading).

As far as I remember with 2 cores I have not reached the 70C limit even when converting video.

Anyway, IIRC 70°C is the TCase max: the CPU should handle some degree more, it's a bit odd that the system shut down right at 70°C.

Only component I could see overheating during the test is the integrated component of my mother board

If you actually have IGP overheating it may be due to this one, and not to the CPU, the system shutdown: if it were so, changing the CPU heatsink wouldn't solve the issue (even if, as I think you can unlock just the third core, and not even the fourth one, I guess that this third core may be defective).

[kamelie1706]

Ok after more testing it seems that the 3rd core does not support temperature over 69.
If I try to enable the 4th core I cannot even boot.

If I keep the standard 2 cores (AMD Phenom II x2 550 @ 3.10Ghz) I can run mprime for an hour and the cpu temperature stay around 70/71 without shutting down the computer.
I am using Q-FAN on silent mode (M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3), the bios doing well its job, if temperature gets too hot it slow the cpu frequence (I guess).
Still the cpu fan goes up to 3000RPM which does not make it silent!

In short I am looking for a silent fan and not necessary a better "cooler" than stock CPU heatsink.

[quest_for_silence]

In short I am looking for a silent fan and not necessary a better "cooler" than stock CPU heatsink.

Every aftermarket cooler is better than stock one: try to changing the fan is a waste of money to eventually get an unreliable ghetto modding.

And with a new heatsink, if it were enough powerful (I guess it shouldn't be the case of the ZZ), pairing with the right software (SpeedFan) you might also re-enable the third core (at least for further testing).

[kamelie1706]

So now the short list is becoming clear:
- Scythe mini ninja (should just fit .... without top fan)
- Scythe Samurai ZZ
- Scythe Big shuriken

Going to search which one is the most efficient .... as for sound they seem equivalent

[quest_for_silence]

Going to search which one is the most efficient .... as for sound they seem equivalent

You have already put them in the right (top-down) order, with reference to low noise operation.

[kamelie1706]

It seems also to be valid for the "cooling" point
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1049-page7.html

So conclusion, I manage to get a mini ninja or I go to the shop and get the samurai zz ...

Thanks again for helping

[kamelie1706]

Having challenges to find the samurai zz at the correct price (25€ with shipping cost).

Found a second hand Noctua NH-C12P for 40€ ... 114mm with Fan.

Worth it over the samurai?

[quest_for_silence]

Worth it over the samurai?

Its used fan does not seem promising (as Noctua SSO bearing are less reliable than FDB one seen on Scythes or Thermalrights).
So if you add the cost of a replacement fan it might not be the best solution, economically speaking.

But above all you have to run the P12 fan at very low speed (not above 7V), as it's loud at higher ones (see relevant SPCR test): as heatsink however, it's far superior to any ZZ or Big Shuriken.

[dhanson865]

Just to through a more expensive hat in the ring, a HS that hasn't been mentioned is

Noctua NH-C14 Dual Fan Top-down CPU Cooler

Low Profile Mode
Run with a single NF-P14 fan underneath the fin stack and with the top fan removed, the NH-C14 measures only 105mm in height, which makes it ideal for use in smaller enclosures and HTPC applications.

38mm clearance from the motherboard in low profile mode (bottom fan only)
105mm height

it's not cheap but it is versatile and I'm thinking it may just be the best performing low profile heatsink on the market right now considering with the bottom fan only it beat out the Thermalright Ultra-120, Ninja 3, Noctua NH-C12P, Zalman CNPS10X Extreme, Zalman CNPS10X Flex, Cooler Master V8, Scythe Grand Kama Cross, and others.

I have no idea where it fits in your price range. I'm assuming it's over but I don't know.

[ces]

hi,

I have:
- Coolermaster elite 360 with it seems 123mm to play with inside

That is a real nice case!

[ces]

Just to through a more expensive hat in the ring, a HS that hasn't been mentioned is

Noctua NH-C14 Dual Fan Top-down CPU Cooler

Can anyone say if the Noctua NH-C14 with one lower fan will fit into the Coolermaster elite 360?

[kamelie1706]

I have no idea where it fits in your price range. I'm assuming it's over but I don't know.

I have been looking at it but for now I cannot get it for less than 80e. It is actually a nice one but it is the cost of my processor itself!

For cheaper I could already go for water cooling solution (Corsair Hydro Series H50)

[kamelie1706]

Can anyone say if the Noctua NH-C14 with one lower fan will fit into the Coolermaster elite 360?

it would be 105mm so I do not see why not but you might have to remove the fan on the case if you have one on top of the processor.

[kamelie1706]

hi,

Finally I went for the final solution ... nh-c14 ... just exceeding my original budget by 150%

Here is the set up i have for now:
- on cpu fan : 1 artic 12 PWM on the side of the cpu as input chained with another one on the top as output
- on chassis fan: i have plugged the noctua fan blowing toward the cpu
- Q-FAN is activated for both (max temp 70C)

Results is (3 cores):
- idle: motherboard temp 36C, cpu temp 31C, artic rpm 800, noctua rpm 350!
- onload: motherboard temp 36C, cpu temp 46C, artic rpm 1100, noctua rpm 650!

Very happy on the change considering I started with only 2 cores at 70C both motherboard and CPU full load (with stock cooler) ... idle was typicallly around 40C

strange thing is when I have tried to chain the noctua to the 2 other artic fans it was always running full speed (1200 rpm) ... even if the artics fan were not full speed
This is the reason I have switched it to chassis fan plug and it works fine.

[quest_for_silence]

strange thing is when I have tried to chain the noctua to the 2 other artic fans it was always running full speed (1200 rpm) ... even if the artics fan were not full speed
This is the reason I have switched it to chassis fan plug and it works fine.

It would look like a MSI board, wouldn't it? If it would be so, you may give a check into the BIOS to CPU fan settings, there could be a setting to let the Noctua fan work (and if you can, use SpeedFan to control the fans).

[fumino]

strange thing is when I have tried to chain the noctua to the 2 other artic fans it was always running full speed (1200 rpm) ... even if the artics fan were not full speed... This is the reason I have switched it to chassis fan plug and it works fine.

so the noctua was on the pwm header? that's gonna run at 12 volts all the time, pwm doesnt set the fan speed by lowering the voltage.

[kamelie1706]

hi,

Motherboard is ASUS M4A88TV-V EVO/USB3 and yes it was plug on the pwm chained with the 2 others artic fan (which are pwm).

I should have done homework first and it would have been obvious it would run full speed (12V)

I am on Linux so no speedfan for me ... I need to find alternative. I have seen some tutorial but nothing as nice as speedfan.
I will do some test with pwmconfig and fancontrol.