Super hot cpu?

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:44 pm

Hello all, my first post! Woo!

(so I appologise if its in the wrong place!)

I'm trying to achive a balance of cool and quiet (the holy grail for most of us!)

My machine is:
AMD Athlon XP 2600+
2.09GHZ
1GB Ram
x2 160GB HDs
x2 80mm silent fans
Stock cooler with noisey 40mm fan
Stock noisy PSU

So I've hidden my computer behind my sofa (I have contemplated putting it in a box to quiet it down a bit) makes it a bit quieter, but now my CPU is running at 60-64 degrees c and the System temperature is about 47-50 degrees c.

I've been told this is a bit hot. What should the CPU be running at?

The machine is noisy as hell! So I plan to replace the PSU with something quieter and replace the stock CPU cooler to something quieter. I'm not sure which CPU cooler to get or which is compatible with my CPU? (I'm not sure what socket it is, or if my motherboard has holes for one of those huge cooling towers etc...) so some help with that would be great

I've also got a somewhat crazy idea...

My machine is in a loft (attic) conversion room. There are sections boarded off that I can run a vent through that almost go though the roof, so that'd be a great place to bring in cold air (as I live in super cold England!)

Do you think its possible to run a 50CM duct to the cool area and suck cooler air into the machine?

Sorry for all the meandering questions, I thought it was better than several different posts

Likif · Post by **Likif** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:53 pm

Your CPU should be fine. Your system temp is not so good for your HDs, though. Can you get a reading on those?

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:07 pm

I have no temp readings on my HDs at the minute, I'll buy one of those strips to stick on them tomorrow or a thermometer.

I could do with a new case, as mines only a midi atx... would a larger case help with cooling?

Should I put the HDs outside of the case?

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:21 pm

Your cpu uses socket A a.k.a. socket 462... that should help you in your selection of a new cpu cooler. Changes are that is the loudest component right now. You can usually measure drive temps with software such as Dtemp or mbm5 (there are others, check the main site).

Although it would be a cool mod to duct in actual outside air, there is no real need to go to such lengths... yet. Besides, IMO ducts only works if you have a clear idea of where to apply them and I think you should first concentrate on the more general issues of lowering noise (and temps a bit if only to set your mind at ease) and improve cooling efficiency.

Based on the temps and subjective noise levels you've mentioned your machine can be silenced quite a bit without things like that. Some questions before I can give you more details: what case do you have (a picture paints a 1000 words)? Where are your case fans located? What's your motherboard?

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:17 pm

teejay wrote:Some questions before I can give you more details: what case do you have (a picture paints a 1000 words)? Where are your case fans located? What's your motherboard?

I have a very standard ugly "computer coloured" case, it has on 80mm fan at the back and one at the front infront of the HD cage.

My mother board is an MSI kt4v-l I see from the site that it doesn't have holes for mounting a large tower cooler, so what are my options?

I'm considering one of these: CNPS6000-CU AMD / PIII Flower Cooler but I'm not sure if the cooling will be effective enough? I'm sure it must be better than the current cooling as that seems to be none existant at the minute with a 60degree temp!

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:22 am

That particular cooler depends heavily on case airflow and ambient temps... would not recommend it with your temps. Depending on budget and how quickly you want to upgrade your cpu a Thermalright SI-97 or an Arctic Cooling Copper Silent TC2 are good options.

This 47-50C system temperature worries me, especially considering the fact that you have a push-pull case fan setup. It sounds like the fan grills in your case might have something to do with this... does the front intake fan have any way of pulling in cold air or is it just spinning against a "wall"? I've seen that in quite a few standard "beige" boxes. What effect does taking of the side panel(s) have of temps?

A larger case might not help as such but a better ventilated case sure would. The Antec 3700's come to mind but I'd suggest reading the recommended section on the main site. So if you can afford it, I would get a good case with decent case fans and a nice cpu hsf and transplant everything. If you then find your psu too loud, your harddisks annoying and start noticing your monitor buzzing, you've caught the SPCR virus!

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:08 am

First, our manners...

Welcome to SPCR !!!

Now, Markp, you first need to concentrate on efficient airflow. teejay has already covered most bases.

Put yourself in place of "air". See every point or hole you could get into your case and where you'd come out and every point along the way where you'd have to twist around or bang your head. Those are obstructions that are stalling your airflow. If you can get your case to act like an air tunnel, you've got wonderful airflow. Then you can start thinking about how air gets heated by the components along the way and by how much. This way of thinking will both help you understand cooling concepts better and allow you to spend your money more intelligently. Otherwise you'll end up like the clueless overclocker who are recently realising that 11 high speed fans do NOT necessarily cool well.

I'm guessing your case is really not up to the task of quiet computing. But before you rush out to grab a new case, your present one may serve as a learning lab. It really would help on future posts if you could provide us with a few photos of your case. Concentrate especially on front bezel, fan grills, general internal layout, how your internal cables are arranged, etc.

It also helps if you supply accurate and detailed info on your hardware - like brand and model no.

So, what brand harddisks? what brand 80 "silent" fans? "stock cooler with 40mm fan" is a bit suspect, AMD coolers usually come with 60mm fans. What's your graphics card? Your PSU brand "might" give us an idea about your case too.

And before you do ANYTHING ELSE, go grab a copy of DTemp software (available in the Links section of this site), install it and read your HDD temps. Unless your hdds are in RAID configuration or the "SMART" option is disabled in the BIOS, you'll get a temp reading and I suspect they'll be above 50C - which is extremely dangerous for the health of the hdds. Much more troubling than your CPU temps.

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:43 pm

Hi, I've just been building a machine with a Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 2 in it and its pretty good. I got the non-TC version and it's fine for most people at 12V and better still at lower voltages. In my case the motherboard will control the speed. When you consider it costs ~£7.50 (£12 for TC version) from ebuyer.com it's great value.
Seb

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:53 pm

Depending on your budget, but if you want to do it on the cheap I would start by replacing the CPU cooler first and just modding your existing case as per burcakb's suggestions. You can also improve airflow a lot by tidying up your internal cabling.

After you've done that you'll probably notice other noisy components you didn't hear before, but that will certainly help with your high case temps. When you've achieved that and have some temperature headroom you can start reducing the voltage of your fans which really brings the noise down a lot.

Check out the recommended section and forums for which heatsink to get, but any Socket A Thermalright with a Panaflo fan on would be a good start.

Straker · Post by **Straker** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:01 am

think the general consensus is that CPUs also have to obey the 10C difference = 50% difference in life approximation, but that it doesn't make much difference. i personally think a CPU will normally outlive just about everything else in a PC if you turn a computer on and let it sit there for 10 or 20 years.

i have a G3 that's been running 24/7 for over 5 years now with no problems, at idle it's at ~64C, when i actually use it it's more like 84, and during the summer it can get up to 98C for months on end.

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:06 pm

Wow that's pretty impressive. But then not all CPUs are created equal. I've no idea about the G3, but it's well known that the Via processors have a very high tolerance to heat.

I doubt an AMD/Intel would be able to withstand that kind of abuse for long though....

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:58 pm

Hello gents (I'm presuming you are all men here!),

Thanks for all the great advice... I've decided to go with the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent TC2. It was only £7 (£11 including p&p fro ebuyer.co.uk)

Then I'll hack my case (drilling out the front etc) to bits as I think the airflow is shockingly bad.

I do have S.M.A.R.T disabled at the minute, as I have had lots of hardrive problems, which I now know (thanks to your information) is to do with the HD temperature!

If I place the HDs outside of the case, would that help cool them?

I think after I install the new cooler, I'll change the PSU, then maybe a new case depending on how hot/noisey it is.

Thanks again all.

Mark

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:00 pm

p.s. I'll post photos and more info etc... next time I'm here

Thanks again!

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:25 am

Wow! Just a quick update chaps... I've removed the guards from the horrible fan holders inside the case (who needs fan guards inside a case?!?!?) I was using the inlet fan on the front of the case as an exhaust blower, turned it around so it was now sucking cool air into the case. Removed the front facia of the case so I can see the fan inlet and bare metal.

Case temps are now 30-35 degrees c! CPU temp still remains around 50-60 degrees c, but I'm hoping to fix this with the new heatsink and fan I've ordered.

Off to my nearest supply type store today to look for some insulating foam of sorts. I plan to insulate the underside of my desk, should knock some noise off from this.

Thanks everyone

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:43 am

Have you soft-mounted your fans? That is, are they still screwed into the case or are they attached in some other, more vibration-dampening fashion? Have you cut out all remaining fan guards from your case? If not, doing so can drop temps and noise a bit further.

Case temps sound good, I hope the cpu cooler will work for you as well. As always: please keep us informed! And enjoy the silence...

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:59 pm

When I say I've cut out the fan gards, these are gards INSIDE the case! Its like a plastic box you put the fan in, inside the case, I'll take some photos tomorrow when the new CPU cooler and my TV card arrive.

So all I'm left with now is this box which clips into the case, holding the fan.

I'll probably go for a new case depending on how much the new CPU fan silences the system.

Woohoo! Can't wait for tomorrow!

Who do I talk to about submitting articles to this site?

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:07 pm

Wonderful!!! Just installed it (photos and description on the way) CPU temp now 50-58 degrees.... case temp 30-34 degrees!!!!

Amazing... I'm considering removing one of my case fans its such a change...

Its not as quiet as I'd have liked though. I still think this is down to the PSU being a noisy bugger... I'll have to invest in a new one I think.

*Goes off to look at the recomended CPUs*

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:02 pm

Markp.com wrote:When I say I've cut out the fan gards, these are gards INSIDE the case! Its like a plastic box you put the fan in, inside the case, I'll take some photos tomorrow when the new CPU cooler and my TV card arrive.

So all I'm left with now is this box which clips into the case, holding the fan.

What teejay means is to cut out the stamped grilles from the outside of the case (front and back). These are usually very restrictive and noise levels/airflow improve a lot if you remove them. Replace them with wire finger guards if you need to, which hardly restrict any air.

If you are going for a new case eventually anyway, you might want to hold off for a while and use your current one as a "sacrificial" case that you can learn on! That's what I did, and I lost count of the number of extra holes I've cut in it, some of which are now blocked up again! Unfortunately I still haven't replaced it!

Also, soft mounting your fans with grommets will help, those plastic fan holders will still transmit vibration to the case. If there is room you could line them with foam inside (so the fan is not in direct contact with the plastic)

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:45 pm

First photos of the fan chopping and I have loads of when I installed the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 2 Tc

If anyone wants to see them! Also a photo of the case:
http://www.markp.com/silent

edit: URL should be groovy now

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:35 pm

Nope, couldn't even see them if I copied & pasted the links. Tried both Mozilla and IE

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:36 pm

ok it'll work if I throw up an HTML page.... one sec

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:40 pm

Ok should be fixed now: http://www.markp.com/silent

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:01 pm

Mark,

by cutting the grills, we mean the metal part with the holes. I'd lose the fan cages alltogether.

Also your harddisk cage looks very "suspendible". Think about it.

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:32 am

burcakb wrote:Mark,

by cutting the grills, we mean the metal part with the holes. I'd lose the fan cages alltogether.

Also your harddisk cage looks very "suspendible". Think about it.

Yup, I know thanks

I want to lower the HD cage, so its in the stream of cool air coming in, so suspending it is a definate option!

Where can I get some rubber mounts for the fans?

Thanks everyone!

t_k · Post by **t_k** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:15 am

You can buy a Lian-Li like this: http://www.microplex.no/rubweb/varer.asp?ARTNR=MF30G

It's called MF20G and MF30G.

Here is a picture of it in use:

It will lower your HD's. Don't know about the noise with that hard disk case though.

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:17 pm

Actually your stamped fan grilles are pretty good - that hexagonal pattern is at least 80% air. Cutting that out completely might make some difference, but not a lot. You might want to check the bezel though to make sure plenty of air is getting around/under it before going into the intake.

As for the hard drives, rather than a hard mount as per the picture, you can cool them and silence them better with elastic suspension, something like this:

That's my own effort, but there are plenty of other (simpler) examples on these forums. Or you could just rest them on foam or sorbothane in front of the intake.

Markp.com · Post by **Markp.com** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:19 am

Yup, thanks Pangit...

I've taken the front bezel off, so its all good

I'll probably mount the HDs with bungee cord, but I'm waiting for my new PSU before doing so. Even after changing my Fans and CPU fan/heatsink, I can only barely hear the HDs when they are doing something, so I may not need to do anything to them at all...

We'll see when the new PSU gets here though