Zalman 7000A-AlCu Fan swap - I need more airflow!

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:23 am

Long time lurker coming out of the closet here.

Well, I've read a lot replacing the fan on the zalman 7000. Most people here used a Nexus, which I don't think will work on my case. Let me explain.

I don't want to achieve total silence. I'm more than happy with my Zalman at min-mid speed, although full speed is a bit loud for me. My problem is that I'm running a A64 3000+ @ 2.4Ghz in a Silverstone LC-17 case and I'm getting high temps during prime95 torture test even with my Zalman @12v.

What I'm looking for, is a fan that generates less than 27.5db, which is the spec for the zalman stock @ 12v; and, at the same time, push more air than the zalman @ 12v. I don't really care if it's has to be run at 12v or 5v, as long as it pushes more air and it's quieter than the stock fan.

Since Zalman doesn't list CFM for the stock fan, I'm having a hard time to find a suitable fan. So, any suggestion on which fan I should use? Am I asking for too much? I'm already taking other actions to improve my temps, such as adding two intake Nexus 92mm, but I don't think this will bring my temps down enough to my taste.

In the end, if I can't improve my temps, I'll start considering a new heatsink, maybe the XP-90, but I don't wanna go there just yet.

Thanks!

hyperq · Post by **hyperq** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:13 am

I have a simple idea. I haven't tried it, but it might work for you.

1) Remove the stock 92mm fan from Zalman 7000

2) Mount the Zalman heatsink, with fan removed, on the CPU.

3) Hang a 120mm Yate Loon there.

The photo below shows you how easy it is to hang a fan with two wires. I am using a Panaflo 80L to cool the heatsink on my chipset.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:52 am

Thanks for the idea. But my case is a horizontal htpc case. I don't think I can use the same concept.

hyperq · Post by **hyperq** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:18 pm

Ah, HTPC. So the root cause of the hot CPU problem could be:

1) Pentium 4 processor. These CPUs are hot. Use a Ninja, Xp-120, or Zalman 9500.

2) Inadequate air flow. Is your HTPC enclosed inside a cabinet? Allow bigger openings to let air in and our. I think the heat is building up inside your HTPC and has no place to go.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:56 pm

1) Pentium 4 processor. These CPUs are hot. Use a Ninja, Xp-120, or Zalman 9500.

It's a A64 3000+ @2.4Ghz, 1.65v. So, I know the big reason for the high temps is my overclock. That's why I'm willing to compromise. I know I won't be able to achieve "SPCR quieteness" with this overclock. I just want to improve temps while keeping it as quiet as possible. I might have to switch to a different heatsink. I don't wanna go there yet. If I do, a ninja is out of the question, cause it's too high for the LC-17 case. I'd rather wait for the SI-120 instead of the XP-120. And Zalman seems interesting as well. I'm still hoping I can keep my 7000, which has been good to me for over a year.

2) Inadequate air flow. Is your HTPC enclosed inside a cabinet? Allow bigger openings to let air in and our. I think the heat is building up inside your HTPC and has no place to go.

It's sitting in a recently built flexi-rack, which is open on all sides. Air flow inside the case is certainly part of the problem. I'm starting to address this. I already ordered 2 Nexus 92mm for intake, since right now, I don't have any intake fan, only 2 80mm exhaust fans. I just don't think 2 intake fans will make a huge difference on my CPU temps. Maybe 5C or so ... I think I need more airflow on my 7000 to get even better results.

Would a Panaflo 92L work? Would it push more air @7-10v than the stock zalman?

hyperq · Post by **hyperq** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:14 pm

It's a A64 3000+ @2.4Ghz, 1.65v.

1) 1.65v!

I have a 3000+ (1.8GHz, 1.4v, Winchester 90nm) and Zalman 7000. The CPU idles at 30C-32C. When I undervolt to 1.1v, the temp dropped to 26C-28C. Drop the voltage.

2) Your CPU is overclocked to 133% of its designed frequency. Do video recording really require this much CPU power? If not, drop the clock down to 1.8GHz.

3) Allowing more cold air into the case will definitely lower your CPU temp a lot.

Overclocking makes a CPU very hot, and cooling such a hot CPU is no small task.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:27 pm

It's newcastle, socket 754. Stock speed is 2.0Ghz. Default voltage is 1.5v, so 1.65v is not that much, considering I'm overclocking it.

I know it's not an easy task ... I'm just looking for a more efficient alternative to the stock fan.

Oh, and the overclock helps during multi-tasking + ffdshow ... That's why I'm keeping the clock at 2.4ghz.

I'm planning to try CrystalCPUID after I have the computer more stable and everything. If everything works, I'll be able to use lower voltages most of the time.

hyperq · Post by **hyperq** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:37 pm

Did you turn on Cool'n'Quiet in BIOS? That should help too.

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:31 pm

Give it a try. It worked well for me. Just use whatever 120mm fan you have lying around.

Heres how I mounted it:

My 3000 Venice ran around 25C idle using this. Load was arounf 34C.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:15 pm

Did you turn on Cool'n'Quiet in BIOS? That should help too.

C&Q doesn't work when overclocking. C&Q changes the voltage which can cause crashes on overclocked CPU's. CrystalCPUID is supposed to be a user-configurable C&Q. I'll try this after I'm happy with full-load conditions on this computer.

Give it a try. It worked well for me. Just use whatever 120mm fan you have lying around.

Heres how I mounted it:

My 3000 Venice ran around 25C idle using this. Load was arounf 34C.

Nice! I like that! The only problem is that I don't have any 120mm fan lying around!

Now, what was your temp with the stock fan? And what fan did you use? Just to get some idea of what kind of improvement to expect.

mr_plow_king · Post by **mr_plow_king** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:24 pm

Vulcan,

That's a great idea. Did the tape around the HS made any temp difference ? Is it causing air noise?

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:59 am

I'd rather wait for the SI-120 instead of the XP-120.

If height above the CPU socket is an issue, note that the SI-120 is about 20mm taller then the XP-120.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:17 am

If height above the CPU socket is an issue, note that the SI-120 is about 20mm taller then the XP-120.

No, it's not the height. As long as it's not as tall as a ninja, the SI-120 should fit. And the XP-120 would work on my mobo, but I'm sure the SI-120 will be more compatible and I've been bitten too many times by buying something that's not future proof ...

As an update, I just got back from CompUSA and I got a Mad Dog 120mm to try Vulcan's idea. I know it's not as silent as a Nexus, but it should push more air than the Nexus, which should help with my temps. Let's see if I can get the right speed to get a good balance between airflow and noise. I'll try to install tonight. The bad part of messing with an HTPC is that my wife can't watch tv while I'm working! Have to chose the right time to do it.

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:09 am

I have two of the Mad Dog 120mm Whisperfans (Yate Loon sleeve bearing version), and like them at 5V very much - MUCH better then a Vantec Stealth at all voltages. And the cost/delivery time of the Mad Dog if you're near a CompUSA is compelling. Yes, a Nexus is noticeably quieter at higher voltages (that's why I'm using one as variable speed exhaust fan), but the airflow wasn't sufficient for my XP-120 on a Northwoods P4, or as intake in the high impedance Sonata.

Vulcan's idea is pretty neat. Let us know how it works in comparison to the stock fan.

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:48 pm

waters10 wrote:Nice! I like that! The only problem is that I don't have any 120mm fan lying around! Now, what was your temp with the stock fan? And what fan did you use? Just to get some idea of what kind of improvement to expect.

Well, this was done as an emergency fix... I accidently broke a blade off the stock fan so I had to do something. I had been thinking about doing this for awhile so I just went ahead and did it then. Now the problem mis that at the time I did not have any extra TIM, so I was forced to use what was already on the bottom. As you can see, there wasn't much there and it was all dried out anyway. With the stock fan I got load temps around 45C, after the mod I got around 50C... (that was a 2500 barton) Its hard to say what the temps would have been with a fresh applicaion of TIM. Really what impressed me the most was the fact that the temps with my 3000 venice were very similar to what people get using medium/high speed fans on a XP-120. Whos going to try this mod on the CNPS9500?

The fan I used was a 120mm Sanyo Denki. It can push over 100CFM at full tilt, but I never ran it at that speed. I basicly ran it somewhere between 6V and 7V. At that speed the noise was berrible, infact it didn't bother me as much as the zalman fan at 12v. When I built up my 3000 Venice system I switched the fan to a much quieter 120mm NMB which pushes around 70CFM at 12v. I ran it at around 7V as well, it was basicly undetectable between my northbridge and gpu fans.

mr_plow_king wrote:Vulcan,

That's a great idea. Did the tape around the HS made any temp difference ? Is it causing air noise?

I''m not entirely sure. In my initial test using my 2500 barton the temps went up around 3-5C after removing the shroud. However, when I added a shroud when it was used with my 3000 venice the temps actualy went up a few degrees. Its worth a try it really only took a few minutes to put on there.

I look forward to the results from waters. BTW, heres a few more pictures.

This was my original idea. I actualy ended up reversing the fan direction in the end.

Heres the broken fan from the cnps7000... whoops.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:34 pm

I look forward to the results from waters.

Ok. Just finished some testing.

I got around 3-4C higher without the shroud, using the Mad Dog @~12v. It's rotating at 1700rpm. It's a bit louder than the stock Zalman fan.

Then I tried installing the shroud, just like yours. I'm getting 1-2 degrees higher, with the Mad Dog still @~12v. It seems the shroud is getting me 1-2C better. But not enough to get better temps than the stock fan.

So here's the thing. These tests were without the 2 nexus intake fans I'll be adding tomorrow. I wanted to test them before adding them, just to make sure the only thing that changed on my system was the 7000 fan. Since the change was only 1-2 degrees and I don't have any intake fan atm, I'm wondering if my system is hungry for more cool air, and no matter what fan is running, the temps will remain the same. What do you guys think? Should I redo my comparisons after I install the intake fans? Or the result I got today are enough to conclude that the stock fan is better than the Mad Dog?

In any case, Vulcan, thanks for the suggestion!

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:21 pm

waters10 wrote:
I look forward to the results from waters.
Ok. Just finished some testing.

I got around 3-4C higher without the shroud, using the Mad Dog @~12v. It's rotating at 1700rpm. It's a bit louder than the stock Zalman fan.

Then I tried installing the shroud, just like yours. I'm getting 1-2 degrees higher, with the Mad Dog still @~12v. It seems the shroud is getting me 1-2C better. But not enough to get better temps than the stock fan.

So here's the thing. These tests were without the 2 nexus intake fans I'll be adding tomorrow. I wanted to test them before adding them, just to make sure the only thing that changed on my system was the 7000 fan. Since the change was only 1-2 degrees and I don't have any intake fan atm, I'm wondering if my system is hungry for more cool air, and no matter what fan is running, the temps will remain the same. What do you guys think? Should I redo my comparisons after I install the intake fans? Or the result I got today are enough to conclude that the stock fan is better than the Mad Dog?

In any case, Vulcan, thanks for the suggestion!

Hmmm, not the result I was expecting... I don't have time to post any more now, but I'll try to post sometime tommorow afternoon. Good luck

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:46 pm

One more update.

I installed 2 nexus 92mm intake fans and checked temps with Vulcan's idea. Temps were not good. I put back the stock fan and guess what, temps didn't change much at all.

So, 2 nexus 92mm fans didn't help me at all. Not even chipset temps or HD's temps seem better! They are fine, but I was expecting an improvement. Now I have 2 80mm exhaust fans that came with the silverstone lc-17 and 2 nexus 92mm intake fans. Temps are about 43-45c idle (bios set zalman to 5v at this temps) and 62-65C during prime95 large fft torture test.

Unless somebody has a suggestion for a replacement fan for my zalman 7000, I'll start considering a different heatsink, with the XP-90 and the SI-120 at the top of my list.

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:00 pm

waters10 wrote:One more update.

I installed 2 nexus 92mm intake fans and checked temps with Vulcan's idea. Temps were not good. I put back the stock fan and guess what, temps didn't change much at all.

So, 2 nexus 92mm fans didn't help me at all. Not even chipset temps or HD's temps seem better! They are fine, but I was expecting an improvement. Now I have 2 80mm exhaust fans that came with the silverstone lc-17 and 2 nexus 92mm intake fans. Temps are about 43-45c idle (bios set zalman to 5v at this temps) and 62-65C during prime95 large fft torture test.

Unless somebody has a suggestion for a replacement fan for my zalman 7000, I'll start considering a different heatsink, with the XP-90 and the SI-120 at the top of my list.

Your temps seem way off the mark... Mine were consistently a good 20C cooler, even if you factor in a 10C error in the readings, something is still off. Infact, I've seen similar overclocks on the stock cooler with lower temps. What TIM are you using? If your using that stuff that zalman included you should try some AS5 or MX-1. What voltage are you feeding the 3000+? l'd also lap the heatsink, it might gain you an extra degree depending on what your base is like. Theres definatly something else going on here.

EDIT: I noticed you said your chipset temps didn't improve at all. Thats deffintly very odd. I noticed a hude drop in my chipset and PWMIC temps, it was a good 5C on the PWMIC, abit less on the chipset. (you did have the fan blowing downward right?) The only thing I can think of is that you need better exhaust for your case... What happens if you take the side off your case?

As far as a replacement, I'd go for the ninja. The SI-120 is nice, but it really doesn't gain a whole lot over the XP-120.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:08 pm

Your temps seem way off the mark... Mine were consistently a good 20C cooler, even if you factor in a 10C error in the readings, something is still off. Infact, I've seen similar overclocks on the stock cooler with lower temps. What TIM are you using? If your using that stuff that zalman included you should try some AS5 or MX-1. What voltage are you feeding the 3000+? l'd also lap the heatsink, it might gain you an extra degree depending on what your base is like. Theres definatly something else going on here.

I'm using Artic Silver Ceramique. It shouldn't be as good as AS5, maybe 1-2 degrees worse, but it should be better than the Zalman stuff.

I'm using 1.65v on my 3000+ Newcastle. I'm doing some testing at a lower clock 2375Mhz, with 1.59v to see how my temps react and also some stability testing.

EDIT: I noticed you said your chipset temps didn't improve at all. Thats deffintly very odd. I noticed a hude drop in my chipset and PWMIC temps, it was a good 5C on the PWMIC, abit less on the chipset. (you did have the fan blowing downward right?) The only thing I can think of is that you need better exhaust for your case... What happens if you take the side off your case?

You noticed the temp drop when you installed the 120mm fan? What mobo are you using? I had the fan blowing donward when I installed the 120mm Mad Dog. It was the only way to install it, since if I reversed it, the blades would touch the fins.

My case is a desktop Silverstone LC17 (see here), so I can remove the top cover, not the side. Temps get a bit better, but not much. Maybe 2-3 degrees full load. I don't remember idle temps without cover.

As far as a replacement, I'd go for the ninja. The SI-120 is nice, but it really doesn't gain a whole lot over the XP-120.

I'd love to go with the ninja, but it won't fit in this case, just too tall. What I like about the SI-120 is that it should have better compatibility than the XP-120.

Thanks for all the help!

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:19 pm

waters10 wrote: You noticed the temp drop when you installed the 120mm fan? What mobo are you using? I had the fan blowing donward when I installed the 120mm Mad Dog. It was the only way to install it, since if I reversed it, the blades would touch the fins.

My case is a desktop Silverstone LC17 (see here), so I can remove the top cover, not the side. Temps get a bit better, but not much. Maybe 2-3 degrees full load. I don't remember idle temps without cover.

Yes. It makes sense when you consider that all that extra air is spreading out when it hits the board and flowing across the mosfets and the chipset. I could literaly feel the difference in airflow in the area around the cooler when I switched from the zalman fan to the Sanyo Denki. (that was with my A7N8X) I was estimating with the mosfet temps (they seemed cooler to the touch), but the northbridge temps were from MBM.

I really can't figure out why your CPU temps ended up being higher with the 120mm fan either. At worst they should have been the same. Did you take notice of how the air was flowing through the sink? Was alot of air escaping through the gap between the fans frame and the shroud on the sink? How much airflow did you feel if you palced your fingers under the heatsink?

The fact your temps didn't drop a whole lot with removing the top proves its not a case airflow problem I guess. I'm not sure what I would try next... Out of curiosity what board are you using?

I'd like to do some more experimenting with this, too bad my zalman fan is broken.

waters10 · Post by **waters10** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:37 pm

I really can't figure out why your CPU temps ended up being higher with the 120mm fan either. At worst they should have been the same. Did you take notice of how the air was flowing through the sink? Was alot of air escaping through the gap between the fans frame and the shroud on the sink? How much airflow did you feel if you palced your fingers under the heatsink?

I didn't notice how much air was escaping through the gap. And I felt that the airflow wasn't that much greater than the stock fan. The Mad Dog is rated at 60cfm, 1800rpm. It was rotating at 1700rpm according to MBM.

The fact your temps didn't drop a whole lot with removing the top proves its not a case airflow problem I guess. I'm not sure what I would try next... Out of curiosity what board are you using?

Board is a DFI NF3 Lanparty UT 250GB. It's a good board, full of options to tweak.

I'll keep tweaking my voltages and clock and see if I can get a happy medium. I might just go for a SI-120 with the mad dog fan. I'm waiting for some more info on this heatsink! Couldn't find much about it ...