Most efficient/silent way to cool hard drives (air cooling)

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:08 am

What methods of cooling down hard drives have people used? I'm now excluding liquid cooling systems for now.

I have two Seagate Barracud IV's that run very hot if I suspend them using rubber bands or neoprene elastic material.

It seems that they absolutely must have a contact with the case for heat transfer or then a fan to cool them down (at least in my case).

The problem is based on my personal experience, that if I place an efficient enough fan near them to cool them down without drawing the air inside from the front intake vents, then I need a loud fan. Not good.

Then again, if I want to draw fresh air from the fron intake vents and use a silent fan, then I can hear not only the very silent fan but also the hd noise.

My case is tripel insulated hard steel case with first layer of bitumen and then two different layers of sound absorbing material.

Hence, it can get pretty hot inside (I only have intake fans at back and PSU pushes air out) as there really isn't many places of air to leak in (especially from the front). It's by no means airtight, but much more solid than any of the normal off the shelf cases.

So, what have people used succesfully to coold down their drives with minimum amount of noise?

I've read the 'turn your drive upside down' thread and seen most of the styrofoam insert tricks, but neither of those deal with my issues: you need either too loud a fan or a hole in the front of your case.

regards,
Halcyon

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:20 am

I use Barracuda IVs in almost all the systems I build and cool them with just a 5V L1A (of varying size) as a front case fan. The slight amount of air that a 5V Panaflo blows over the drive is generally enough to drop the HDD temp 5-8°C. This is somewhat dependant on the case temp though, so if your case is pretty warm inside you'll have a harder time getting the drives cool. My method gives drive temps that are within ±2°C of case temps so as long as your case isn't much warmer than the low 40°C range it should work fine.

pingu666 · Post by **pingu666** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:52 am

i have 2 old slot cpu heatsinks on the sides of ma 7200.7, atm its..
31c with no airflow to speak off
ambient is 20.5
most of the drive is just mildly warm, i think the prob is on the pcb which gets hot

kork · Post by **kork** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:40 am

I've read the 'turn your drive upside down' thread and seen most of the styrofoam insert tricks

Anyone have a link for that 'upside down' thread or the styrofoam tricks? I do remember seeing something of the kind, but can't locate it ATM. Cheers.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:31 am

This is quite interesting.

My case inside temp can easily rise to 50 degrees Celsius. Inside, the HDs started to to climb to 45 and beyond, so I needed to start thinking about additional cooling.

I already modified my Antec case today to draw in fresh air from outside using a relatively non-noisy 92mm Sunon (all I had on hand today).

It hardly helped. My case temp stil rises above 47 degrees and the drives also start to overheat.

Only if I remove the side panel of the case altogether, can I get case temp to 37 and HD temps to 36/37.

I can't for the life of me fathom what tricks people pull of to make their case both silent (and I mean <20 dBA) and cool

With hot parts, I can manage either or, but not both.

regards,
Halcyon

PS Turning discs upside down (including putting on heatsinks on the chips):
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=4007

Foam encasing and suspending HDs
http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... =67&page=1

powergyoza · Post by **powergyoza** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:48 am

From what I can tell about your case setup, you may have a case airflow issue. If your rear case fans are intakes and your PSU fan is the only exhaust then you'll have a big dead-zone of air towards the front and bottom - I'm assume that's where your hdd is.

If this seems like a reasonable assessment of your situation, you'll need to remove that dead-zone by

converting the rear intakes to exhaust,
opening ample vents somewhere in the front towards the bottom.

You can still keep the noise from getting outside either by having the vents at the bottom of the case and/or creating baffles to force the sound to travel an indirect path.

happy troubleshooting!

AlexHu · Post by **AlexHu** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:48 am

I am thinking sticking 1 or 2 heatsink ($10 each) like this:

http://www.meci.com/default.asp?feature ... ode=Search

I currently use a Panaflo at 5V to blow air at it and it stays blow 40C.

Post by **Rusty075** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:42 am

Or get a pair of these: CAT# HS-80 Only $1.00 ea!

Will35 · Post by **Will35** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:18 pm

I've got a question regarding the proper placement of an external heatsink on a HD.... seems to me that having the heatsink mounted to the actual case of the HD as opposed to to the tin cover would allow for a better heat transfer path... any opinions ?

Thanks, Will

Post by **Rusty075** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:20 pm

Generally mounting the heatsinks on the sides of the HDD will result in better cooling, at least from my unscientific experiments

Will35 · Post by **Will35** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:26 pm

Thanks Rusty, that's what common sense told me as well... I'm trying to figure out the best way to attach a heatsink to my cuda in this Sonata case. My HD is the hottest component in the box (39c @ idle(. I just ordered a 60x15 Panaflo to mount to the bottom of one of the HD trays but a passive solution would make me much happier.

Zhentar · Post by **Zhentar** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:39 pm

can we trust your results though rusty? you DID kill 4 HDs in a vat of oil.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:22 pm

trust him. he's crazy enuf

Here's the sidesink cooled hdd article on SPCR

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:50 pm

What you'd really want is two heatsinks that sandwich the hard drives, so the heatsinks themselves would be the left and right side brackets. I'm looking around myself to see what is possible.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:43 pm

powergyoza,

thanks for the tips. My HDs are at front/bottom (near where the intake vent for the front is located). My PSU pushes hot air out.

I also tried using two intake fans below the PSU and they helped some for CPU and case temps, but naturally not for the HD temps. I will also try them at exhaust now that I have the front intake fan installed.

regards,
Halcyon

PS What really bothers me is that almost none of the case makers I've seen (sans Signum Data) have really well thought out cases where you DON'T need to cut holes, install 120mm extra fans, insert extra insulation material, build your own HD suspension, etc... Is it really so hard to build a ready-made silent case?

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:07 am

almost none of the case makers I've seen (sans Signum Data) have really well thought out cases where you DON'T need to cut holes, install 120mm extra fans, insert extra insulation material, build your own HD suspension, etc...

Check the Recommended Cases list for a short list of those case we know of that require the minimum amount of modding for great airflow. I agree it is not difficult to design & build, but so few do it. I have looked at many dozens of cases, pro'bly more than a hundred, visited many case-only wholesale shops, etc. That list pretty much sums it up.

And signum data doesn't actually sell their case; just their system.

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 8:39 am

I figured out an apparent good solution. Use aluminum plates on both sides of the drives with countersink holes and flathead screws. Then screw on heatsink of your choice to these plates.

I will try to prototype something soon I hope.

crg · Post by **crg** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:31 am

Rusty075 wrote:Or get a pair of these: CAT# HS-80 Only $1.00 ea!

Thanks for the link Rusty, I am going to pick some up locally in a bit and will report back. It looks like 2 on each side will do the job just right as the hard drives are 6 inches long.

I just have a question on mounting them. By the design on these it doesn't seem like they can be drilled and screwed in place. So I am guessing thermal compound over thermal tape would be better. Does the compound need to be spread all over (100%) in between the heatsink and hard drive sides or can I get by with much less. I just don't know how easy it will come off the drive later on if needed.

Post by **Rusty075** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:21 am

In theory the more surface area covered by the compound the better off you'll be. But if you're using the thermal tape (like the 3M stuff) you don't need thermal grease at all, just put one long piece of tape over the whole side. Some isopropyl alcohol will probably take the tape residue off later.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:29 pm

powergyoza wrote:From what I can tell about your case setup, you may have a case airflow issue. If your rear case fans are intakes and your PSU fan is the only exhaust then you'll have a big dead-zone of air towards the front and bottom - I'm assume that's where your hdd is.

Thanks for the tips again.

I did the following:

Intake (half-bloked, put still pushing air) is a 92 mm Papst at 12V pushing air from the front of the case straight to the 2 x Barracuda IVs near bottom fron of the case.

PSU is Enermax 465 pusing air out and below that two Antec 80 mm (at 5 V, still quite brisky) pushing air out (for now).

Case temp is now at 45, CPU temp is 60 at idle. Both HDs are at 50 (all degrees Celsius).

So, adding an intake fan and reversing the direction of the rear fans helped almost zero.

What can I do except:

- Add more / faster / bigger fans?

- make the machine more noisy

- install water cooling

Again, I must state that I cannot understand how others do it: getting silent and cool with air cooling. It seems almost impossible to me :)

regards,
Halcyon

PS I'm exchanging my Antec fans to Papst as soon as the reseller here has stock. I use rubber isolators for installing and have a fan controller as well. I will probably modify the read exhaust fan hole to fit a single 120mm fan, but that's about all I can do... it's water cooling after that.

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:18 pm

Rusty075 wrote:In theory the more surface area covered by the compound the better off you'll be. But if you're using the thermal tape (like the 3M stuff) you don't need thermal grease at all, just put one long piece of tape over the whole side. Some isopropyl alcohol will probably take the tape residue off later.

The biggest issue is that the mounting points on most drive stick out a little so if you put something flat against it it will only touch a small area. I think perhaps putting aluminum foil in between might be better to fill the gap.

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:21 pm

halcyon wrote:
Again, I must state that I cannot understand how others do it: getting silent and cool with air cooling. It seems almost impossible to me

What is your system spec? I don't see it here unless I'm missing it. You're running pretty hot.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:15 pm

fmah,

Antec (like 1080 but without the side blowhole) case with 3 layer insulation inside (lead/bitumen, 2 cm of foamed plastics and aluminum foil)

Athlon XP 2100+ (at 1,625 V)

2 x Kingstom XMS3500 (PC433) 512 MB at normal voltage (2,6V)

SLK-800 with Papst 80mm 8412 NGL (33 m3/h, 12 dBA) at 12V with Arctic Silver III

2 x Seagate Barracuda IV 80Gb in the front/bottom HD slot behind the front intake fan, which is now 92 mm Papst 3412 NGL at 12V (with a hole cut in the case for the 92mm fan)

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro with stock cooling

Audigy 2 Platinum eX (most bottom PCI)

RME DIGI PAD 96/8 (3rd most bottom PCI)

Asus A7N8X (non-deluxe) nForce2 mobo (rev 1.04) with stock northbridge passive (big) heatsink)

Enermax 465AX-VE(W) 430W PSU with the 80mm exhaust fan removed, but with the 92mm PSU intake fan intact and airways out from the PSU have been blocked, except the one that points outside from the case

2 x Antec 80mm case fans at 5V exhausting air below the PSU and right next to the CPU cooler (have tried also having the take in air, makes no difference). They are still quite brisk at 5V, although I will replace them due to noise factors as soon as possible.

Sony DDU1621 DVD-ROM + floppy drive.

Rounded cables.

And because an image is worth a ...

http://www2.uiah.fi/~samu/hot_machine.jpg

That's how it looks.

I must say that I still do NOT have direct access to outside air from the front intake fan as the front plastic cover of the case is insulated from inside. Hence the front intake fan is taking air from mostly the bottom of the front cover and not directly through it. I will modify this next, but I was hoping that I wouldn't have to cut hole to the insulation and make the front of the case more noisy. Guess I have to.

I will also modify the exhaust 2 x 80 mm slots to be single 120 mm slot and put a Papst 4312 NGL there (in case I can make it fit nicely).

Furthermore I have a piece of flexible air pipe that I can use to make either an exhaust or intake duct (but not both) for the CPU cooler. This has a diameter of 127mm so it's quite ideal for the 120mm rear fan.

Other than that, I'm running out of ideas.

regards,
Halcyon

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:29 pm

I must say that I still do NOT have direct access to outside air from the front intake fan as the front plastic cover of the case is insulated from inside. Hence the front intake fan is taking air from mostly the bottom of the front cover and not directly through it. I will modify this next, but I was hoping that I wouldn't have to cut hole to the insulation and make the front of the case more noisy. Guess I have to.

It's not clear what all this means.

Do you or do you not have a clear airflow path in the lower part of the front panelbetween the inside and the outside? All the Antec 1000 series have decent holes here -- did you cover yours up? If so, no wonder you have high temps.

You need an intake hole that is about the same size as your exhaust holes. Whether the steel or the bezel or the damping is doing the restricting doesn't matter -- they all need to be open the same size in order for good airflow to occur. If you don't want a hole in the front (to avoid noise escaping), you could cut a hole in the bottom panel, under the HDDs, and make sure the feet raise the case at ~1" above the floor.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:37 am

MikeC,

let me try to explain (I don't have time to rip my computer apart for another pic, sorry):

I have a clear and full opening in the metal part of the case for the 92mm front intake fan.

However, this metal part of the case is covered with the plastic front cover that also has the swiveling door.

I have lined the inside of this plastic cover with three layer dampening material.

Now, this cover goes against the front part of the metal case where the fan slot is located.

So, I don't have straight perpendicular access from the fan intake direction outwards from the case, because the dampening material is in between.

However, the dampening material and the fan grille are separated by a c. 1 cm of space, which should be sufficient for the fan to pull in air from the bottom of the plastic cover, which in turn is NOT blocked at all.

So, yes. I can improve the airflow by cutting a 92mm hole into my dampening material, but I'd rather not as it negates most of what I've been able to achieve so far (namely silencing).

I'll report back when I've been able to do the rear mod and experiment with ducting.

regards,
Halcyon

dan_hxff · Post by **dan_hxff** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:50 am

Most essential part of HD to cool are the electronics underneath. Why not fasten an 80-92mm fan underneath hard drive. Facing flat up against it. Blowing up into the electronics. There are screw holes underneath hard drives. Just fasten a plastic or metal bar straight across and fasten hard drive to it. This metal could be one of the strips you punch out to put in a PCI card.

Or simply fasten fan to hard drive with just one screw and a small washer then large washer to help stabilize it. Or drill through a penny to make a good size washer

To do this you may have to cut out 80-100% of the floor of the cage the hard drive is in. Or suspend hard drive from the cage. I have some perfect plastic material for this. $.38 a piece at crafts/hobby stores. Heavy plastic screen. Or get some 1/8" steel mesh.

Plus this works with one hard drive..... for two you'll have to do some thinking but not much.

Dan

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:48 am

I cut an opening to the front dampening material, so that the front intake fan now has a clear and unobstructed pathway out from the case.

This has significantly reduce the HD temps to 38 degrees celcius and at the same time, significantly increased my noise levels, just as I imagined.

I have a 92mm 23 dBA Papst attached to the front of the case with rubber fan isolators, but I can now hear more clearly:

A) The noise of the 92 mm front intake fan
B) THe seek noise of the HDs
C) Other fans inside my computer

So, it seems I'm between a rock and a hard place: either I get to keep the HDs cool or I get to keep my computer moderately silent.

I could again block the front dampening material hole and try another fan placement. In fact, this is something I'll probably try next (when I have time).

Oh, this is silencing bug is such a sickness!

Why can't I just walk into a shop, smack down 3000 euros and get a silent computer

regards,
Halcyon

Oli · Post by **Oli** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:09 am

[deleted]

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:05 am

Oli wrote:
you can http://www.deltatronic.info/

Thank you, oh thank you!

regards,
Halcyon