Passive cooling for intel quads and duos?

[memory_leak]

Hello guys;

I hate noise as you might do yourself and I currently have machine that is almost 100% passive cooled (only fan is on hyper's psu). My rigg is not so new; I have used it for like 3 years now (or somethign there) - I am running a p4 (prescott) at 2.8ghz, overclocked to 3.0 ghz with passive cooling (old big tuniqtower). I have never experienced any problems.

However I am now looking to upgrade, for some e0 stepping core2, either duo or quad; haven't really made my mind yet.

I have namely being hacking and building google's chrome for last 4 days, and it is really pain to build it on old p4, it takes almost entire day; dev page states about 1 hour on quad cpu - so that is my only reason to upgrade to quad; ment ohterwise to go with duo becuase of upgrade price.

I also will use passive cooling. If I understand things well, prescott is something of a powereating monster, so I guess It is warmer then a duo. But I have no idea how it relates to quads; I have q9550 in thaughts. So to put this simple: can I cool a q9550 down with old tuniq tower (or some other better passive cooler?).

If it is not possible to run it passive, then I will probably stick with duo .

I have no plans to overclock (not much at least ).

[thejamppa]

Hi and welcome to SPCR!

Thermalright HR-01 plus is your best bet with duct. Duct that into back fan and you can run it passively in current line of Intel CPU's.

However if you put Scythe Slipstream 500 on HR 01 plus, it will increase coolers potential and you are not able to hear Slipstream 500 inside of your case, unless you happend to have a bat's hearing or something very, very good hearing... I mean hearing cockroach walk on floor 2 rooms away style hearing...

[memory_leak]

Hehe jamppa thnkju - for welcome and nice reply

I do play music; but I guess I still don't hear like a bat - even If I probably do look like a one and certainly live most at nights like a one

since I have antec's p180, with never used fans, I guess I can just turn the back-side one on, and with help of a duct as you suggest I guess I am fine without extra fan on cooler; or maybe slipstream 500 is less sound than those fans comming iwth p180? (by the way my antec is SPCR - edition - kudos to m.chin )

I guess I'll try with thermalright; so bad I can't use old tuniq I already own; I have lost parts that were over, and maybe it never had parts that would fit with new socket.

[accord1999]

Measurements of the QX9650 have it using around 70W under full load. If you can use passive cooling with a Prescott, a 45nm quad-core will be piece of cake by comparison.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/717- ... e7200.html

[Mats]

Although it's not a Prescott, SPCR's dual core, 65 nm PD 950 is rated for 130 W but still only uses 78 W. So I'm not sure if the P4 or the C2Q is the hotter one.
The biggest difference will be in idle.

[NyteOwl]

I have an HR-01+ on a QX9650. works like a charm. I only need to use a fan on it if I get it above 3.2 GHz for extended periods. Even then I use a 800rpm Slipstream.

That's 7unducted, I haven't tried that yet.

[memory_leak]

thnks all; seems like hr will do; I have even changed my mind about cpu; I think I will go with cheeper q9300, or even Q8200; so I guess I'll be fine. I hope you don't min if I take opportunity and ask what mobo do you suggest with those cpu's and hr-01 cooler?

Also - do they still make tuniq ultra 120? I don't see it at online shops here in sweden (I am not beeing able to find hr-01+ neither, but I'll keep looking).

Yeah - I had no problems running p4 with tuniqs cooler, I even had it overclocked to 3.0ghz for a while, and used only top fan of antec p180 chassis then, at lowest rpm. But I I have used it without fans at 2.8 for like almost two years now, and just sold it today.
_______________________________________________________
Edit: After looking for at least 20 - 30 webbshopps - there is not a single one in sweden having hr-01+ in stock;

However I am able to find tr ultra 120 : http://www.netonnet.se/?sid=1003422&gcl ... 1Qodc15peQ

I am not so interested in how does it do compared with hr-01+, probably, worse; but can it do the jobb? Anyone using it?

I have also found hr-01 (not plus), with lower price then that of hr ultra; so again, what do you know about that one?

[memory_leak]

ok - I have now red through some reviews of tr ultra 120, both here at spcr, and at annandtech, and it seems that ultra is better performer then hr-01 (not plus), but it needs some additional fan.

However since I have two fans in p180, one on back and one of top, to help with airflow, what do you think will they do good alone? So I can skip buying extra fan?

[NyteOwl]

Mine is on an Asus P5E64 WS Evolution. Plenty of clearance on vRM and Northbridge heatsinks and on memory.

[bonestonne]

ok - I have now red through some reviews of tr ultra 120, both here at spcr, and at annandtech, and it seems that ultra is better performer then hr-01 (not plus), but it needs some additional fan.

However since I have two fans in p180, one on back and one of top, to help with airflow, what do you think will they do good alone? So I can skip buying extra fan?

a TRUE gone passive is not a good idea. the fins aren't spaced far enough to allow you to get away with it. not to mention that the fins are also not nearly as wide as they should be in order for you to get the same fanless results as say a Scythe Ninja.

if you want passive, you may want to look into the Scythe Ninja. Rev A, or the Rev B with a bolt-thru kit. Thermalright makes popular bolt thru kits.

there are knock-offs like the OC-Z Vendetta (not sure you'll find that anywhere though) but those knock-offs hardly perform like the real deal (not that they aren't real, but they're sub-par compared to what they're mimicing).

[jormartr]

Hi,

I am in the same situation, with a Quad 6600.

I can choose between

· Scythe Mugen SCINF-1000
· Scythe Orochi
· Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme

The Orochi seems a beast, 1.2 kg with 10 pipes... has anybody used it?

[alecmg]

I had Core2 E8200 undervolted to 0.995 V at default clocks
Thermaltake V1 did a great job cooling it passively with no other fans nearby. But I had its 12cm spin slowly anyway

[Mats]

memory_leak: If you really want parts that you can't find in Sweden then order it from Gemany, here's a very good search engine.
Just remember that the ratings for the stores are from 5 to 1, the closer to 1 the better.
Total cost including shipping to Sweden usually ends up being the same, or even lower if you order many parts.

[memory_leak]

thnks guys

I have now ordered ultra 120, yesterday last night; before I saw your comments so I will have to live with that. In worst case I can put on Scythes 8db fan on (one with 800rpm).

Mats, your link will be very usefull in future, thnks very much.

[Mats]

I have now ordered ultra 120, yesterday last night; before I saw your comments so I will have to live with that. In worst case I can put on Scythes 8db fan on (one with 800rpm).

Can't you just cancel it or return it?

[memory_leak]

yeah, but if I do that they will charge me with shipping cost + 10% of value (it is not muh, but I think I'll be fine with ultra too).

[memory_leak]

to note is that I am putting together just a temporary system untill nehalem coms; since nehalem will probably mean different socket an mobo upgrade I don't want to invest too much in current one. So I guess I will have to stick with this one for like ½ year, so I don't want it to be too slow either.

[Mats]

So you had a P4 for years, then get a C2 just so you can wait a couple of months until Ci7 shows up?
I'm confused . .

Sure, it's your money, but you do know that the Ci7 shows up very soon, like 6 - 8 weeks from now?

[memory_leak]

read my first post mats - I need multitasking badly

then I don't think this will be just a couple of months; it will probably be something around ½ year.

If intel is going to do same thing with nehalem, as it did with core2 when it got released, then we will not see anything in sales before october or november, and then it will probably be "extreme" only version. And then it usually takes a month or two until crap reaches sweden, so I will probably not be able to buy one "ordinary" before january - february next year. Maybe longer.

I don't want to wait that long. I plan to invest in DD3 which will work with nehalem platfrom too, so I will loose some money on mobo and cpu; I am ready to loose say 100$, it is like one evening saturday night overhere, which is not that bad.

However it is probably true that parts sold today will get cheaper, so I am loosing some money by buying them now; but as said, I don't want to wait for like next year, I need some quad core now.

[Mats]

memory_leak: Sorry if I sounded confused, I just wondered why you have waited so long to get C2 if you needed it so much.
Well it doesn't matter now, you seem to know what you need.

[frenchie]

Hi,
How about an E7200 with a Ninja (heatsink is overkill but you can keep it when you upgrade).... Low power, easy to overclock and not a bad performer calculation wise... Just my 2 cents.

[blackworx]

I recently got a freebie upgrade to a Q9550. I've got it @3.4GHz on stock Volts with an HR01+ and 800rpm S-Flex @ 6V (~380rpm iirc). It is inaudible in my P182 and try as I might I cannot get it over 61ºC (that's on core 0 - all the others don't even reach 60º). I love it. As previous posters have said, "passive" will probably be very easy indeed, especially with a duct to your exhaust.

[memory_leak]

memory_leak: Sorry if I sounded confused, I just wondered why you have waited so long to get C2 if you needed it so much.
Well it doesn't matter now, you seem to know what you need.

yeah - me wondering too , I was generally fine with my old p4, so I didn't want to spent money until nehalem comes out. Applications were certainly not running as fast as on c2dous, but nothing was slugish neither, games I play (doom3, hl2, ut2k3, serious sam) do not make use of multiple threads, so I didn't felt for upgrade just not yet.

But when I waited entire day, for chrome to build; it was just too much.

frenchie I am thinking more about q8200; didn't knew for that one before I went googleing and reading reviews. If I opt for q9550, then it will be more long-term solution, then I want.

[Mats]

I just want to confuse even more by telling you that the Q6600 is cheaper, 400 spänn närmare bestämt.
It uses only 10 -15 W more (total system power), which is a bit surprising. The higher multiplier (9 instead of 7) makes it easier to overclock with cheaper motherboards, although maximum speed may be a bit lower since it's 65 nm.

The Q8200 is a cheaper model compared to the Q9000's, but it can also be a worse overclocker, just like the E7000's are compared to the E8000's. The low multiplier (7) makes it hard to overclock.

[memory_leak]

hehe, it is not confusion; I am well aware of q6600;

consider this; accordng to many forums, g0 stepping of q6600 can not reach much more then 3.4 ghz, ppl are suspecting a bit worse material then in previous steppings. It has high multiplier, so one can use worse (cheaper) mobo to get there.

q8200 has a multiplier of 7 only, so it needs decent mobo to get up to 3.4 or past. I don't want to spend lot of money on mobo, if I am already buying cheap cpu. But even cheper mobos (around 1000:-) can get up to 360 fsb, which gives around 3.2 ghz with 7x multiplier.

Considering that 45nm takes less voltage, and develop less heat, it sounds like a good deal to me, also not really much differene. I might run q6600 with a bit higher freq, of maybe 200-300mhz, but I can live without that improvement to get cooler cpu.

btw - I can't see that big difference as you mention; q6600 is only 100:- cheaper overhere. Are you sure you didn't look at price without "moms"?

[memory_leak]

I was looking for an upgrade for some time actually, and I have found some extra priced 790i mobo; so now I am considering a real upgrade,and skip nehalems for next 2 years to come, just as I skipped cores untill now .

Alternative 1:

xfx 790i ultra: 2200:- (:-) hehe, "extra price")
cpu q9550: 2800:-
ram ddr3 2x2gig reaper: 2300:-
_________________________________
7300:-

+ new cooler (1 x 600:-)
____________________________________
~8000:-

= speed around 4.2 ghz, no upgrade for next 2-3 years to come

Say in 3 years from now, if everything is still running ok
(I had once abit ic7-g max that burned out without being
overklocked), I can sell this for maybe 2000:- max, and loose
about 75% of the value

my upgrade cost from previous p4 system: 6000:-

Alternative 2:

cheap mobo: 1000:-
cheap q6600: 1500:-
ddr 2x2gig: 900:-
_________________________________
3400:-

+ new cooler (1x600:-)
__________________________________
4000:-

= speead around 3.2 ghz, upgrade next year

total upgrade cost from my previous p4: 1900:-

I can MAYBE (if I have luck as I had this time) ,
sell this for 2 ~ 2500:- next year, loss: slightly about 50%.

Question is how much will those components loose next year
when nehalems comes out. Let say they half in cost (yeah
I am optimist), then upgrade cost is: 4000 + 2000 = 6000:-.

Adding to that all the work to assemble system, install all crap into it and sell
old comps, are those 2000:- I save by waiting a bit more worth.

Also how good overclokers will nehalmes be, considering
they have integrated memory controller.
They can turn into equally arsing overclockers as phenoms,
so maybe it won't be so easy go get to 4ghz with nehalems?
Another point is how much will stock performance compare to
overclocked penryns. Maybe nehalems running at say 3.2 or 3.4
ghz will be better performers then penryns running at 4.2 ghz?
Actually I am not that much into nehalems, so I have no idea
what I am talking about now . Is it worth to go with older
system and wait until results and experiences come next year
to upgrade again to top of the line, or upgrade to todays top of
the line and live with it for 3 more years to come?

If I go for hi-performance components like alternative 1 above,
they will probably cost same as they cost today, that would leave me
with around 6000:- + 2000:- upgrade cost from my old p4 system.

Maybe I should skipp middle step, and upgrade to alternative 1, and skipp nehalems at all.

now I have to go and flipp coin to make my mind , cheers ...

[Mats]

Why picking a hot and expensive nVidia board? Isn't a plain P45 enough?

Go with the Q6600. It won't be the fastest, but I think it will be fast enough for a long time.

You would most likely use that Q6600 for more than six months, probably for so long that you start looking for 32 nm instead.

[memory_leak]

Yeah, expensive is most negative there, but this one is extra priced and 2/3rd of its normal price.

p45:s seems to have problems reaching more then 360fsb with quads; they seem to be great with duos, but have difficulties with quads. Now, I had no possibilitie to check that myself, but at x-bit labs there are several tests with p45 mobos, where they compared overclocked duos with quads on same mobos:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/

I don't know how polite their results are, but I have to go after some results.

edit: 790 ultra, seems to go easily to 500+ fsb even with quads according to diverse reviews.

[smilingcrow]

If you are looking to get the best performance per watt and want to over-clock then you really need to get a 45nm Quad Core. I tested a Q9300 and Q6600 G0 both at 3GHz at stock voltage and the difference was 22W which is a lot if you’re aiming for passive cooling. That was measured at the wall socket so the CPU itself obviously consumes less.

I don’t see the point of buying DDR3 at the moment as the price is high and will only get cheaper in relation to DDR2 in the future. I’d buy DDR2 now and by the time you change to a platform that only supports DDR3 the tables will likely have turned already and DDR3 will be cheaper than DDR2 which means a good resale value for your DDR2.

It’s not realistic to expect to achieve a high over-clock with a quad core and run it passively.

Initial data from Anandtech shows that the Nehalem platform has a much better performance per watt than C2Q for tasks that support 4 or more cores. It’s too early to say how this translates to ‘performance per CPU Watt’ which is a more critical metric for a system with a passively cooled CPU. The percentage of power consumed by a Nehalem CPU will be higher than with a C2Q due to the IMC etc. This suggests that the CPU itself will still offer a performance per watt gain over a C2Q CPU but less so than at the platform level. i.e. if CPU cooling is the bottleneck then the gains with Nehalem will be less dramatic than the platform gains suggest.

It’s unknown at this point how the thermal limits of Nehalem will compare with C2Q. Certain Intel CPUs have a throttling temperature lower than others which impacts on ‘safe’ cooling practices. E.g. you’re better off with a chip that consumes a bit more power with better performance if it is rated for a higher temperature.

Nehalem on release will according to ALL reports consist of 3 chips with the cheapest being around $266. The platform overall will be expensive though as the motherboards will all be expensive ($300+) and for best performance will require 3 DDR3 sticks. If supply is short then prices will initially likely be artificially inflated as well.

Nehalem is a new socket so who knows when we’ll see a good heatsink released that supports the new dimensions of the socket’s mounting mechanism.

[Mats]

memory_leak: The first two P45 reviews in that link shows that they're capable of 453 and 465 MHz.
And then there's also P35 and X38 mobos, like Abit IP35 which does 475 MHz according Xbitlabs.

Nehalem is a new socket so who knows when we’ll see a good heatsink released that supports the new dimensions of the socket’s mounting mechanism.

I don't think that will be much of a problem. S775 have 72 mm distance between the holes, and S1366 have 80 mm.
We will most likely see S1366 mounting kits from Thermalright and others.