Athlon 1800+ Palomino or 2100+ Thoroughbred Rev. B

[ejl10]

Before you type "2100+, dummy!", let me explain. I've got an 1800+ Palomino running right now with a Zalman 3100+ "flower" heatsink. It runs hot, especially as I begin to slow down the fans in my system. Therefore, I'm considering replacing it with a cooler CPU.

The 2100+ is supposed to be the best Athlon for overclocking (or so I've heard). This leads me to believe that it's either the coolest running model, or it can handle the most heat. Either way, it seems like the best candidate. I can buy the 2100+ for $62 at Newegg, and I figure I can get between $40 and $50 for the 1800+ on eBay. Net price of upgrade: $12 to $22 plus eBay/Paypal fees.

Is it worth my time and money to upgrade? Also, is the Rev. B core cooler than the Rev. A? I know they put an extra layer (9 total) into the B, but I'm hopeful that improvements in the manufacturing process overcome this and let it run cooler.

Thanks,
Emmett Lyman

[CallMeJoe]

The source is somewhat dated, but check out this link for some good info on Athlon XP production codes. Remember, heat production varies as the square of CPU core voltage, so small differences in core voltage can make a significant difference in temperature. Also, some consider the 1700+ and 1800+ DLT3C to be the best value in overclockable AMDs.
Also, AFAIK, the rev B Tbreds do typically run cooler than the Rev A.

[Rusty075]

Get the 2100, dummy!

The 2100+ is supposed to be the best Athlon for overclocking (or so I've heard).

It's one of the best. It also undervolts quite well.

This leads me to believe that it's either the coolest running model, or it can handle the most heat.

Well, no. It's overclocking success is due to other factors. The 1700 T-bred, at 49 watts, is probably the coolest running. A 2100 T-Bred B puts out 62.1 Watts. Your 1800 Paly puts out 66 watts.

Either way, it seems like the best candidate. I can buy the 2100+ for $62 at Newegg, and I figure I can get between $40 and $50 for the 1800+ on eBay. Net price of upgrade: $12 to $22 plus eBay/Paypal fees.

For that price the combined effects of more performance plus less heat are hard to beat.

Is it worth my time and money to upgrade?

I'd think so. Double check to be sure your mobo supports T-bred's before you just pop it in. (you may need a bios update)

Also, is the Rev. B core cooler than the Rev. A? I know they put an extra layer (9 total) into the B, but I'm hopeful that improvements in the manufacturing process overcome this and let it run cooler.

Yes the B does tend to run cooler. Actually the extra layer is one of the things that helps it run cooler. The extra layer is copper, which helps the heat be spread more evenly across the die, so it can be transfered to the heatsink more efficently. Surprisingly, even in an area as tiny as the core the temperature gradients can be pretty high. The extra layer transfers some of the heat from the hottest parts, like the FPU's, to the cooler parts, like the cache. So you get a few more sq mm's of surface to transfer that heat from.


Since this new CPU will actually be making less heat than your current one you could just reuse your current cooler. If you decide to upgrade the Heatsink reviews here are all with processors exactly like your's, so the temps you can expect will be the same as found in the reviews. The reviews I've written were all tested with a 2100 T-bred B.

[ejl10]

Wow. Thanks a lot. That was really helpful, though unfortunately Newegg doesn't list the second line of coding so I couldn't tell if they've got the "A" or "J" processors. A quick look at the user reviews, though, seem to indicate that everyone is getting the "J"'s. Interestingly, one reviewer had both, and claimed that the "J" runs cooler and faster. That's not what I would have expected based on the article, but we all know that no two processors are ever the same.

Anyhow, I'm not planning to overclock at all... I burned up a video card years ago and it kind of soured me on the whole game. With the 1.75V to 1.6V improvement it looks like the 2100+ upgrade would provide a significant cooling advantage, even if I can't find an "A".

Thanks very much for the link, and for the comment on heat and voltage. You answered my question perfectly.
Emmett Lyman

[ejl10]

Thanks Rusty! I didn't realize that the 1700 ran even cooler. Hmm.. that changes the game a bit, as I'm not much of a gamer and don't really need the CPU power. On the other hand, I've got an All In Wonder card, and I'm planning to try recording and editing movies at some point. From what I gather, that's every bit as intensive as 3D gaming, so maybe the extra power would be advantageous after all. Are there any other Thoroughbred CPUs that run cool like the 1700 (or at least cooler than the 2100)?

Thanks again,
Emmett Lyman

[frosty]

Neat string, can you really get that much at ebay for your old cpu? Pretty nice then to get a jump for that $. :}

[ejl10]

Frosty,

That seems to be what they're selling for. I've got very good feedback, and a tendency to be very detailed in my descriptions, and the CPU is in perfect condition, so I should be able to sell it at or slightly above the going rate.

Hopefully I don't incite lots of other people to do the same... it would drive the 1800's price down and the 2100's price up!

Thanks,
Emmett Lyman

[Kostik]

I think one of the best hardware buys I have ever made was when I upgraded from a Palomino 1600+ to a TBred B 1800+. This processor has so many qualities :

- unlocked multiplier
- runs at stock clock with vcore @1.25v (~31w). With a TT volcano 7 HS and an L1A @5v it can handle hours and hours of CPUBurn.
- can overclock to 2500+ (166x12.5) if you boost the vcore.
- runs fanless if you underclock it to 666Mhz (133x5), vcore @1.1v.

The 2100+ would be a good choice too.

[CallMeJoe]

On the other hand, I've got an All In Wonder card, and I'm planning to try recording and editing movies at some point. From what I gather, that's every bit as intensive as 3D gaming, so maybe the extra power would be advantageous after all.

Depending on the application, you may find your hard drive speed more inportant than CPU speed on video processing. Most video editors handle the huge files in virtual memory, so you're writing and copying those huge files on your HDD. A good RAID 0 array is frequently better than a state of the art CPU.

Are there any other Thoroughbred CPUs that run cool like the 1700 (or at least cooler than the 2100)

I "upgraded" a Palomino 2000+ to a Tbred B 1800+ for the temps and couldn't be happier. I'm not a hard core gamer, but I do a fair share of audio processing.

[ejl10]

I think these responses settle it- I'll definitely upgrade to a Thoroughbred (thanks, Kostik). I'm leaning toward the 2100+, but the 1700+ sounds tempting as a low temperature alternative. CallMeJoe, thanks for the input on video editing... that makes the decision harder , but allows me to explore other options. I may have to bump the "2 Samsung 1614's in Raid 0" project up in the list of things to do if it will make up for a slower processor!

Thanks again,
Emmett Lyman

[jojo4u]

When you are doing only office work the Palo is sufficent. T-breds run hotter while ideling:
XP 1800+ 0.18 TDP 60W Vcc 1,75V StpGnt 1,5A(max) 0,6A(typ)
XP 1800+ 0.13 TDP 46W Vcc 1,50V StpGnt 6A(max) 3A(typ)

[OrangeCat]

I got the T-Bred B 2100+ from Newegg(retail version) last week. I'm running it at 1.57vcore(it's a 1.6v DUTC3) and 13x160(2080Mhz). I actually downgraded from a 2500+, and it's running a lot cooler.

[Tobias]

Well, I just started to use my computer as a VCR and to some extent edit what I record and I´d say you need all the juice you can get. You can cool the cpu:s with the same cooler with the same fanspeed anyway, it is just a question of a few degrees more or less. I´d get the 2100+, if I had to choose

[Bat]

The 1700 T-bred, at 49 watts, is probably the coolest running. A 2100 T-Bred B puts out 62.1 Watts. Your 1800 Paly puts out 66 watts.

If you get the 2100+ but underclock it to run like a 1700+ then the power consumption would be near or identical to that of the 1700+, but you have the option of running it faster if ever you decide you need the speed.

[ejl10]

Bat- good point. And from what Tobia says, I may want the extra power at some point if I'm working with video feeds. Try not to laugh, but I've got nearly the entire run of MacGyver on videotape, and I'd like to bring it over to the PC someday. It will be a huge task with a lot of editing involved, so I just might want the extra juice.

Jojo4u- thanks for the input. I think I'm probably going to go with the Thoroughbred given all that's been said, but the heat issue you point out might be cause to follow OrangeCat's advice and underclock/undervolt it.

Thanks everyone,
Emmett Lyman

[frosty]

Ok my stupid question is if I have now an athlon XP 1700 how do I know if it is a Tbred or Pal?

I thought the Tbred jump to a 2200+ was the best way to go and as far as the 266 XP boards supported?

Any help in clearing my fuddled mind is appreciated. :}.

[frosty]

Plus is it true, even though I have a board only supporting 266 can a person in theory run up to a Barton 3200 333 it just downgrades it's clock speed to the 266?

[Rusty075]

Ok my stupid question is if I have now an athlon XP 1700 how do I know if it is a Tbred or Pal?

Overclockers.com to Frosty's rescue!

[OrangeCat]

Plus is it true, even though I have a board only supporting 266 can a person in theory run up to a Barton 3200 333 it just downgrades it's clock speed to the 266?

It'll keep the same multiplier and just go at (mult x 133) on most boards. However, you're giving up a significant amount of clock(mult x 33) in that scenario. Depending on what board you have, you may be able to run it at full speed, even though the 333FSB isn't officially supported.

[pangit]

Anyhow, I'm not planning to overclock at all... I burned up a video card years ago and it kind of soured me on the whole game.

For most of us that's all part of the learning experience! I know it was with me, and it didn't put me off OCing/experimenting when I killed various components (CPU/graphics card). But maybe I'm just daft!

I'm sure we could start a whole new thread on this subject, as I'm sure a lot of people out there have tales to tell of expensive mistakes. In fact I think there was one a while ago........

[pangit]

Woohoo! My hundredth post! Didn't realise that!

[ejl10]

For most of us that's all part of the learning experience! I know it was with me, and it didn't put me off OCing/experimenting when I killed various components (CPU/graphics card). But maybe I'm just daft!

I can't argue with that, it was definitely a step along the way. But I just don't want to wreck a new $200 video card out of carelessness! Of course, that was an isolated incident... I think the cards are a bit tougher today than that one (what was it, a Voodoo, or a Voodoo2?).

That said, I may try overclocking a little bit. My motherboard isn't the most stable for the task, but it should be able to handle a little push (MSI KT6 Delta). I've got to make sure everything is running in tip top shape first, and, in the spirit of this thread, I've got to keep the temperature down using just a Zalman 3100+ heatsink and low speed fan.

Congratulations on the 100th post. I guess this makes 14 for me

Thanks,
Emmett Lyman