Papst 4412FGLL fan question

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:57 am

Has anyone used the Papst 4412FGLL fan? According to the specs on the various retailers who carry it, the airflow is 40CFM, the speed is 1,200 RPM, and the noise level is 18 dBA. On the Papst website I cannot find this specific model, but there is another one (4412FGL - one less 'L' on the end) that has somewhat different specs (for example, it's louder).

I am considering replacing the stock Antec TriCool fans in my Antec P180 case with these - but that's only if these specs are accurate. Does anyone know?

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:28 am

Stephen wrote:Has anyone used the Papst 4412FGLL fan? According to the specs on the various retailers who carry it, the airflow is 40CFM, the speed is 1,200 RPM, and the noise level is 18 dBA. On the Papst website I cannot find this specific model, but there is another one (4412FGL - one less 'L' on the end) that has somewhat different specs (for example, it's louder).

I am considering replacing the stock Antec TriCool fans in my Antec P180 case with these - but that's only if these specs are accurate. Does anyone know?

If the "FGLL" exists, it won't have a tach signal for measuring RPM. The "F/2GLL" model has the tach signal (that's what /2 means). Google is a wonderful tool. I searched on "Papst 4412FGLL", and the first hit was for a sale of the /2 version and gave the specs. The FGL, BTW, is a 1600RPM fan. If you're too lazy to use google, here.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:29 pm

Felger Carbon wrote:
Stephen wrote:Has anyone used the Papst 4412FGLL fan? According to the specs on the various retailers who carry it, the airflow is 40CFM, the speed is 1,200 RPM, and the noise level is 18 dBA. On the Papst website I cannot find this specific model, but there is another one (4412FGL - one less 'L' on the end) that has somewhat different specs (for example, it's louder).

I am considering replacing the stock Antec TriCool fans in my Antec P180 case with these - but that's only if these specs are accurate. Does anyone know?
If the "FGLL" exists, it won't have a tach signal for measuring RPM. The "F/2GLL" model has the tach signal (that's what /2 means). Google is a wonderful tool. I searched on "Papst 4412FGLL", and the first hit was for a sale of the /2 version and gave the specs. The FGL, BTW, is a 1600RPM fan. If you're too lazy to use google, here.

I'm not too lazy to use Google. Unless there's some site on Google that I'm missing, google doesn't yield any comments/feedback from actual users of the Papst 4412 FGLL fan. Real world feedback is what I'm looking for.

FYI - the text below is what I copied from the Sharka Computers website.

"Specifications:
Fan Model: 4412 FGLL
Dimensions: 120 x 120 x 25mm
Weight: 175g
Connector: 3 Pin
Air Flow: 40 CFM
Voltage Range: 7 - 13.8VDC
Noise Level: 18 dBA
Bearing Type: Sintec-Sleeve
Power Input: 0.72 W
Nominal Speed: 1,200 RPM
Temperature Range: (-)20 - (+)75°C
Service Life (at 40 °C): 80,000 hrs"

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:41 pm

www.ichbinleise.com is a good site for info on papst 4412 models. I have the f/2gl and the f/2gll.

The f/2gll is quieter because it's max rpm = 1200.
The f/2gl has is rated at 1600rpm.

The "e" on some of the models stands for extended temperature or something like that.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:48 pm

http://www.silenthardware.de/forum/lofi ... t6136.html
It's in German, so you might want to put it through Google Translate or Babelfish. They are talking about a lot of fans, but three posts or so are about the F/2GLL which should sound the same as the FGLL.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:48 pm

frankgehry wrote:www.ichbinleise.com is a good site for info on papst 4412 models. I have the f/2gl and the f/2gll.

The f/2gll is quieter because it's max rpm = 1200.
The f/2gl has is rated at 1600rpm.

The "e" on some of the models stands for extended temperature or something like that.

Thanks for explanation. Is there an english version of that website?

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:50 pm

Tibors wrote:http://www.silenthardware.de/forum/lofi ... t6136.html
It's in German, so you might want to put it through Google Translate or Babelfish. They are talking about a lot of fans, but three posts or so are about the F/2GLL which should sound the same as the FGLL.

How do I put it through Google Translate? -------------------'

Never mind, I figured it out. Thanks for the site.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:00 pm

http://www.google.com/translate_t
Put the adres I posted above in the textbox below: Translate a web page and press the Translate button

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:06 am

Hi,

I'm not sure about the GLL and GLLL models, I think they are OEM models. That's possibly the reason why you can't find specs for them from the manufacturer website. I just sent an email asking if they are OEM, will post if I get confirmation.

The E is indeed extended temperature range, rated at 85C instead of the Papst's "normal" 75C. The difference is, that the E model has a plastic shielding on the closed bearing and uses a higher temp oil.

.... And an edit before I even posted, the answer to my query:

Actually they may be "retail only" or "OEM only". If the airflow and noise are very low only retail would be interested as opposed to industry, the efficiency (RE static pressure) could be too poor to be of interest. More a marketing thing.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:00 pm

I appreciate the information provided - it has been helpful.

I would still like to hear from someone who has actually used the Papst 4412FGLL fan - anyone?

Sizzle · Post by **Sizzle** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:50 am

Stephen wrote:I appreciate the information provided - it has been helpful.

I would still like to hear from someone who has actually used the Papst 4412FGLL fan - anyone?

I have a couple. They are nice fans and undervolt well. My new system in my CM Stacker 830 has so much airflow, I'm going to be pulling the one off my Ninja and replacing it with a 4412FGLLL that I picked up from pcsilent.de.

Let me know if you are interested in one, I have 2 or 3 I think and I could get one to you for way cheaper then buying a new one.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:34 pm

Sizzle wrote:
Stephen wrote:I appreciate the information provided - it has been helpful.

I would still like to hear from someone who has actually used the Papst 4412FGLL fan - anyone?
I have a couple. They are nice fans and undervolt well. My new system in my CM Stacker 830 has so much airflow, I'm going to be pulling the one off my Ninja and replacing it with a 4412FGLLL that I picked up from pcsilent.de.

Let me know if you are interested in one, I have 2 or 3 I think and I could get one to you for way cheaper then buying a new one.

Do you know how the noise level compares with the Antec TriCool 120mm fan? Or to the Nexus 120mm fan?

Also, can the Papst be used for both intake and exhaust? I've read info on some fans that are supposedly better at one or the other, but not both.

Sizzle · Post by **Sizzle** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:40 pm

[quote="StephenDo you know how the noise level compares with the Antec TriCool 120mm fan? Or to the Nexus 120mm fan?

Also, can the Papst be used for both intake and exhaust? I've read info on some fans that are supposedly better at one or the other, but not both.[/quote]

Most certainly quietier than the Antec. I have never used a 120mm Nexus so I can't compare. The Papst certainly undervolts well and is very quiet.

Papst should be good for just about anything, they are known for being good in tight spaces.

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:22 am

Hi. Just to add my opinion...
I bought the following 120mm fans a few days ago :
Ebm-Papst 4412 F/2GLL
Akasa DFB122512L
NoiseBlocker UltraSilentFan SX2
Globe S1202512L-3M
Textorm S1202512L-3M

I have a P180, so I can compare with the Antec TriCool, which I use on the medium setting, but they are fed (as the other fans) with 6V from an Akasa AK-FC-03 fan controller.

I know it may sound strange, or I maybe I got unlucky with the models I bought, but I prefer the Antecs above the others... I find their noise to be less noticeable : a kind of 'woosh' instead of flop-flop-flop-flop.

The SX2 is too noisy and buzzes.
The Akasa is also too noisy.
The S1202512L-3M are good, even though they make a very faint flop-flop noise. I prefer the Globe, even though they are probably supposed to be identical. I use the Globe on the top and the Textorm in the middle of the PSU chamber (mounted with rubber grommets).
The Papst is undeniably very quiet, but it has an annoying tcheek-tcheek noise, kind of the Textorm's flop-flop, but slower and more hearable.
I use the Antecs on the back (rubber grommets) and the CPU. I like them, but one of them seems half-defective, because it makes a pronounced flop-flop noise if fed with more volts.
They're not perfect, but my hard disks make more noise...

Keep in mind that this is all very subjective and that I compared them with the knobs on the fan controller at minimum.
And sorry for the stupid noise descriptions, I'm not english so it's not easy to describe

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:52 am

sir_constantine wrote:Hi. Just to add my opinion...
I bought the following 120mm fans a few days ago :
Ebm-Papst 4412 F/2GLL
Akasa DFB122512L
NoiseBlocker UltraSilentFan SX2
Globe S1202512L-3M
Textorm S1202512L-3M

I have a P180, so I can compare with the Antec TriCool, which I use on the medium setting, but they are fed (as the other fans) with 6V from an Akasa AK-FC-03 fan controller.

I know it may sound strange, or I maybe I got unlucky with the models I bought, but I prefer the Antecs above the others... I find their noise to be less noticeable : a kind of 'woosh' instead of flop-flop-flop-flop.

The SX2 is too noisy and buzzes.
The Akasa is also too noisy.
The S1202512L-3M are good, even though they make a very faint flop-flop noise. I prefer the Globe, even though they are probably supposed to be identical. I use the Globe on the top and the Textorm in the middle of the PSU chamber (mounted with rubber grommets).
The Papst is undeniably very quiet, but it has an annoying tcheek-tcheek noise, kind of the Textorm's flop-flop, but slower and more hearable.
I use the Antecs on the back (rubber grommets) and the CPU. I like them, but one of them seems half-defective, because it makes a pronounced flop-flop noise if fed with more volts.
They're not perfect, but my hard disks make more noise...

Keep in mind that this is all very subjective and that I compared them with the knobs on the fan controller at minimum.
And sorry for the stupid noise descriptions, I'm not english so it's not easy to describe

I don't intend on undervolting, or using a fan controller. Have you compared the Antec TriCool (on low setting) with the Papst and other fans w/o undervolting?

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:51 am

With the Papst sitting on the carpet and the Antec soft mounted on the rear of the case on Low, all other fans off, the Antec sounds better to me.
The Papst moves more air for sure, but the sound is higher-pitched and louder.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:48 pm

sir_constantine wrote:With the Papst sitting on the carpet and the Antec soft mounted on the rear of the case on Low, all other fans off, the Antec sounds better to me.
The Papst moves more air for sure, but the sound is higher-pitched and louder.

Just curious - if you put the Antec Tricool on the carpet, and soft mount the Papst on the rear of the case, is the Antec still quieter?

Also, do you know if the 4412F/2GLL has the same specs as the 4412FGLL? I'm not sure what the "2" stands for.

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:20 pm

Well, I'm not really sure mounting/unmounting the rubber gromets several times would be a good idea. I'd prefer not to have to do that...

All I can say is that there is no difference between holding the fan in my hand and letting it lay on the carpet, if you're concerned about potential vibrations.

Still, by playing with it a bit more, I found that there is noticeably more motor noise when I hold it horizontally instead of vertically. Since I tested it initially on the top hole of the P180, I may have been too harsh in my judgment. I intended to get back to the store to get a replacement, but now I wonder if I shouldn't test it in the front of the case, where it would stand vertically...

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:23 pm

By the way, I hadn't even noticed you were talking about a 4412FGLL model without a '2' in the middle. I had never heard of it.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:27 pm

I found the fan on the Sharka Computers website. Do you know the specs of your Papst fan? I have the ones from the Sharka website.

Do you recall how the sound of the Papst mounted vertically compares with the Antec TricCool mounted vertically? If not, and if you happen to test that out sometime soon, could you post the results? I was planning on buying a couple of Papst fans tomorrow, but now I'm not sure.

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:31 pm

The /2 means it has tacho. It's also written in the second post in this thread.

EDIT: and yes, the tacho should be the only difference between those two models.

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:06 pm

I've put the Antec that was on the CPU and the Papst side by side on the carpet.
At 12 V, it's easy : the Antec is better. The noise made by the Papst is about what the Antec would do if there was a setting between Low and Medium.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:07 pm

Aleksi wrote:The /2 means it has tacho. It's also written in the second post in this thread.

EDIT: and yes, the tacho should be the only difference between those two models.

My bad. I forget about that earlier post. Thanks for the reminder.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:46 pm

sir_constantine wrote:I've put the Antec that was on the CPU and the Papst side by side on the carpet.
At 12 V, it's easy : the Antec is better. The noise made by the Papst is about what the Antec would do if there was a setting between Low and Medium.

Ok, according to the Sharka website, the 4412 FGLL has an airflow of 40CFM, and the RPM is 1,200. According to one of the websites referenced earlier in this post, the 4412F/2GLL has an airflow of 41.17CFM, with an RPM of 1,300. Both show a dBA of 18. The Antec website indicates the 120 TriCool at low setting has an airflow of 39CFM, an RPM of 1,200, and the dBA is 25. I'm not sure why the two Papst specs are different - nor why they both claim the dBA is 18 yet apparently they are in fact louder than the TriCool at 25dBA.

One more question - does your Papst have a white Papst label or a blue/white EBM-Papst label. I understand the ones with the white label are an old stock and many of them make a clicking sound.

Sizzle · Post by **Sizzle** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:12 pm

I really feel that you may of gotten a bad sample. I got my LL's from pcsilent.de and they are most certainly smooth and not near 25 dba loud. I have one running at around 7v on my Ninja and it's not audible outside the case.

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:32 am

Stephen wrote:One more question - does your Papst have a white Papst label or a blue/white EBM-Papst label. I understand the ones with the white label are an old stock and many of them make a clicking sound.

It has a blue ebmpapst label.

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:39 am

Sizzle wrote:I really feel that you may of gotten a bad sample. I got my LL's from pcsilent.de and they are most certainly smooth and not near 25 dba loud. I have one running at around 7v on my Ninja and it's not audible outside the case.

I tested the Papst quickly by placing it on the front vent hole of the P180 (not screwed yet, so it should be even bettter when done), undervolted. Thus, it's mounted vertically. Well, it's quite good actually, I don't hear it because the slight motor noise is covered by the disks. But that was at ~6V.

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:10 am

I mounted it with the screws and it's really quiet. I have to get very close to hear it.
At 12V, though, it makes more noise than the rest of the PC.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:04 am

sir_constantine wrote:I mounted it with the screws and it's really quiet. I have to get very close to hear it.
At 12V, though, it makes more noise than the rest of the PC.

Do you think if it was soft mounted in the same fashion as the Antec TriCool, it would still be louder at 12v than the Antec at 12v and on low?

sir_constantine · Post by **sir_constantine** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:16 am

Yes. The noise does not come from vibration but from the amount of air it pushes.

Are you sure you don't want to undervolt it ? Once it's in the case, mounted vertically, undervolted, and there's not a direct path for the sound to come to your ear, it's quite good actually.

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Re: Papst 4412FGLL fan question