what is wrong with Madshrimp ?

karabas · Post by **karabas** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:16 am

Hi.
Allow me to present
http://www.madshrimps.be/gotoartik.php?articID=421
Can it be true ?

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:37 am

Can it be true ?

I don't see any reason to doubt the overall conclusion of that review. The Globalwin, Scythe, Papst and Nexus come out on top of the table for noise, which is in line with SPCR findings. I don't see any real suprises in those results. The Aerocool Turbine is perhaps a fan that has not been mentioned on SPCR before as a quiet fan, so that is interesting.

jjr · Post by **jjr** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:38 am

Awsome ....

diver · Post by **diver** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:47 am

Something you might want to keep in mind is the cooler they used does not perform well at low air flows, according to their testing. It may have been used because it allows for easy changes of 120mm fans.

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:09 am

I wanted a cooler which could easily fit 120mm fan, and blow down onto the mainboard, the Si-120, XP-120 surely also serve this purpose, but I had the BT installed and decided to use it for the test.

btw.. "what is wrong with Madshrimp" .. what is wrong with reading a forum before posting

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=30247

if you have an issue with a review at the madshrimp site, don't hesitate to spill your guts and say what is bad, I don't shy away from criticism as long as it is grounded and not out of the blue.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:41 am

jaganath wrote:The Aerocool Turbine is perhaps a fan that has not been mentioned on SPCR before as a quiet fan, so that is interesting.

The Aerocool Turbine got enough exposure when it was new about a year ago.
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... e+aerocool
But the turbine is not only quiet it is also *bling* with a pricetag common for *bling*. So the masses here, who don't want to pay more than $5 for a fan, tend to ignore it.

Weldingheart · Post by **Weldingheart** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:44 am

jaganath wrote:The Aerocool Turbine is perhaps a fan that has not been mentioned on SPCR before as a quiet fan, so that is interesting.

I remember some Oz fellows were taking this quiet bling fan due to the lack of Nexuses at southern hemisphere at that moment,take a look at page 2&3:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... c&start=30

some German sites,like Fan-X and tweakers4u also 'approved' this fan as quiet,also Overclek if I don't get wrong.

I have the 2000 it's fairly quiet and the turbines(actually the 3 are the same fan)do have lower rpm than Nexus at 12V.
haven't seen/heard Felger Carbon's comparison yet though...

Oh,and what's wrong with Madshrimps?(other then they are MAD shrimps

)

Nice works as always jmke&friends

EDIT: Grrr, Tibors posted my answer few seconds just before I did it

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:52 am

Weldingheart wrote:also Overclek if I don't get wrong.

can't find it at their site; http://www.overclex.net/recherche/?sear ... t=articles

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:20 am

jmke wrote:btw.. "what is wrong with Madshrimp" .. what is wrong with reading a forum before posting
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=30247

Search is a long lost art ...

karabas · Post by **karabas** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:36 am

Nexus D12SL-12 (black/white) 22.80 41.10 1000 917
Personally i own orange nexus running at 12V but cannot confirm 41 noise level.
BTW my bad not SEARCH first, but it never hurt to ask.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:45 am

But the turbine is not only quiet it is also *bling* with a pricetag common for *bling*. So the masses here, who don't want to pay more than $5 for a fan, tend to ignore it.

Yeah, prices in the UK for this fan are about £12, so comparable with Nexus 120mm. Nice fan, but too expensive (here).

geforce1 · Post by **geforce1** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:49 am

The 41dba noise level of the monochromatic Nexus Madshrimps measured was about 10cm distance with a 34dba ambient

Butcher · Post by **Butcher** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:51 am

A lower ambient noise level and testing froma bit further away would have been nice. I mean, really, who sits 10cm from their computer fans?

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:02 am

then you would have 34dBA results for 50% of the fans tested. because <30dBA inside most homes in not obtainable:)

Ackelind · Post by **Ackelind** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:22 pm

jmke wrote:then you would have 34dBA results for 50% of the fans tested. because <30dBA inside most homes in not obtainable:)

Move to where I live, up in the northern parts of sweden. Ambient noise here is really low, especially at nights. We don't have any ACs etc either, we have snow to do the works for us

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:36 pm

no AC here either, still it seldom you see very low dBA readings, a fellow reviewer living in the middle of nowhere registers 37dBA in his house.

Butcher · Post by **Butcher** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:51 pm

Pity you don't have access to an anechoic chamber.

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:53 pm

Butcher wrote:Pity you don't have access to an anechoic chamber.

but then again, would the results obtained in there be of real world value?

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:36 pm

jmke wrote:if you have an issue with a review at the madshrimp site, don't hesitate to spill your guts and say what is bad, I don't shy away from criticism as long as it is grounded and not out of the blue.

"The lowest dBA reading in the test room was 34dBA"

all i can say is WOW, how do you not go insane with ambient noise levels that high? even if "most" homes arnt any lower than that, what about those who's homes are? most people that look for ultimate silence in their PC's do so because the rest of their house is very quiet. you should have shot for a maximum of 25dbA, IMHO. you basically did a review to find quiet fans for people living in loud houses who probably dont really care about quiet fans in the first place.

"the sensor was placed ~10cm away from the fan."

why didnt you just use the standard 1meter @ 45degree's? you even stated in the review that this was the standard, and yet you didnt adhere to it.

also, you never stated how you achieved your voltages, or if you monitored the voltages applied to the fans at all to verify they were all indeed the same.

-------------------------------------------------------------

those are the only faults i could find. overall i think it was done quite well, and most of the major fans people ask about are pretty much their.

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:44 pm

3-pin connector to select voltage; all fans get the same.

you really should look into dBA readings; 34dBA is really really quiet; I can assure you:) here's some good reading material: http://www.madshrimps.be/forums/showthr ... adid=21822

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:48 pm

MikeC lives in a sub 20dbA house. and he lives in the city.

you gotta remember who your talking to here. this is SPCR, with a bunch of crazy noise freaks on the forums who look to silence things like light bulbs, LCD monitors, fish tank pumps, and air filters along with their computer.

if i had to estimate, id say my house is around 25dbA normally. when the power goes out the noise level only drops a slight amount in the house. i would call a house without power dead silent, less than 20dbA.

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:51 pm

Aris wrote:less than 20dbA.

"Provided I truly have a 16 dBA ambient noise level, my PC is the top of the line in emitting no more than 20 dBA; the noise from the clock next to me, the sound of the keyboard from every stroke I make, noise from my stomach will sound like an orchestra. I have worked in a sound chamber at ~16- 20dBA, I did not feel well after about one hour of work. It is not a healthy situation for most normal people."

click the link I posted - I'm not so sure you grasp "dBA"

MikeC does not live in a sub 20dBA house; he has a small room in his house he uses to get these measurements. read up on his replies in that thread:)

it's not just me, CNET registers 30+ ambient too, HardOCP too, Anandtech too. Now if it was only ONE site who has 30+ for ambient you could question their testing methods. but it's other other way around here;)

Aris wrote: if i had to estimate, id say my house is around 25dbA normally. .

Borrow a dBA meter from someone (the police?) and measure it, don't estimate or guess.

with different dBA meters and different models I always get 30+ values. even in a -2 basement where I can hear my hart beat.

Aris wrote: you gotta remember who your talking to here. .

somebody who joined these forums 4 months before I did

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:02 pm

he stated in the link you provided that in his house during the day it can be as quiet as 20dbA. and only at night during the winter does it drop below that.

in any case, his house is definatly quieter than 30dbA. I'd venture so far to say that most people's house on this forum are quieter than 30dbA. I hear people posting on this forum all the time that once their computers are quiet they can clearly hear florescent lights making too much noise, and LCD panels making an audible hum.

if you cant hear your florescent lights, or your LCD panel, then your room is too loud for SPCR.

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:08 pm

no worries, I can hear my LCD panel buzzing, or a passive power supply making noise.
you don't take everything you read for granted? GOOD! me neither, that's why I bought the dBA meters in the first place. All I'm saying is that you should try to get your hands on one (radioshack?) and do some test yourself.

btw, good luck finding one that goes below 30dBA and doesn't burn a hole in your pocket

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:17 pm

I mean, really, who sits 10cm from their computer fans?

Err, me?

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:27 pm

people come to SPCR because of the extream level MikeC and company take sound measurements to, and the extream level of attention to detail they give to things. its a mile above everyone else. if we wanted general run of the mill home ambeint noise levels we'd settle elsewhere, like your site and others like it, but we dont. We expect that extra mile above average.

its like with anything. mainstream/budget/coach etc etc always makes the bulk of any entities revenue's, but its the performance/high end/first class etc etc items from those company's that make us stop to look, keep our attention, and then ultimately stay with that entity to buy one of their mainstream items. even if another company's mainstream item is better, they didnt have the eye candy to draw us in. you need to have the eye candy if you want to be #1.

it was a good review and long overdue, but it wasnt an SPCR review. Id still rather have one from MikeC at this site. i hope he still does a review like this.

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:35 pm

jmke wrote:All I'm saying is that you should try to get your hands on one (radioshack?) and do some test yourself.

until you do that; you won't quite grasp in what kind of room <30dBA are measured.

~25dBA is a recording booth at your local radio station or your favourite band. You know the ones with all the padding.

<20dBA is a special "dead" room where no sound can bounce around, and you can loose your balance because of the lack of feedback from your ears.

now you can stand on the largest pilar and yell at me that "it's not the way we do it at SPCR", until you've held a dBA meter in your hand and measured the noise level in your place, your voice might be unheard;)

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:12 pm

i think it was a good review. its nice to hear that there are other fans available other than the nexus that can be easily silenced. If nothing else it gets you in the ballpark of which fans arent just hype. EVERY review should be taken with a grain of salt.

mattthemuppet · Post by **mattthemuppet** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:04 pm

I thought that was an awesome review, very comprehensive. Must have been a mental amount of work to do all those measurements, thanks!

I was surprised how well the Globalwin and Papst came out - both appear to have a far greater range of CFM but can still be undervolted to or below ambient noise level. That's always been a problem with the Nexus - it's very quiet but has very little headroom.

As for all the nitpicking - every absolute sound value, even on SPCR, can only reliably be compared with others recorded in exactly the same way. There's simply too much variance in background noise and measuring equipment to do otherwise. Where sound values are useful is in comparing within a sample and in that respect this review was incredibly informative. Moaning about the ambient noise level value is missing the point - if someone can hear low background noises (electrical circuit humming) then it's quiet, even if that person's sound level meter measures 34dBa. All you need to know is what the ambient sound value is and that of what's being measured. Even then, if you know that a Nexus@12V makes 22dBa@1m, then whatever it makes at a different distance can simply be extrapolated back. Given how closely the known Nexus dBa values @1m (eg, off this site) and those on Madshrimps correlate I think alot of the -ve comments on jmke's ambient noiselevel are missing the mark.

What I think would have been v. useful info (and probably requiring the purchase of even more expensive equipment) would be CFM values at different voltages - this would remove the HS bias out of the performance analysis and would let you work out all sorts of interesting stuff, like CFM per dBa. Personally I would have liked a bit more of an in depth description of noise on the quieter models, but that's just my preference (and the sound recordings are there anyway). The pages were also a bit download heavy (all the adverts and stuff) but that's just me

TomZ · Post by **TomZ** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:58 pm

jmke wrote:you should try to get your hands on one (radioshack?) and do some test yourself.

btw, good luck finding one that goes below 30dBA and doesn't burn a hole in your pocket

The Radio Shack ones start at 50db!

what is wrong with Madshrimp ?

what is wrong with Madshrimp ?

thank you !