Hi all,
I stupidly bought a Dell PowerEdge 1900 (in the UK) without checking how much noise this thing generated - its for our small business and needs to last us 3 years, and we don't have anywhere but our office to put it in, so its driving us crazy!! It has 6 92mm fans which even when they rev down after initial boot are extremely loud. The single CPU (its a 4-core Xeon) has a Scythe Ninja-type heatsink, with a dedicated fan, there's one for the (empty) second CPU and one for the expansion slots (all empty) - these 3 fans all suck air I presume across the 6 SAS disks at the front. Then there's two fans for the memory slots and one at the back I believe.
I did a little research after we received it and it seems at least a few people have replaced the stock fans with 92mm equivalents, but I don't know the details. I thought I would try this too though. I took out some of the fans and a standard 92mm would fit in the fan holder which is great, although the fan connector would not work (they are hot-swap plug-in connectors). The only thing I don't know is whether the server would boot if it could not detect the fans... I daren't try it without any fans running!!
I am going to use a T-balancer BigNG to power, monitor and adjust the fan speeds based on thermal probes, as its a totally independent system that I can control from the external USB socket on the BigNG. But I can't work out what fans to go for... we don't seem to have half the options in the UK that the US has and I want 6 fans that only have 3-pin cables because I don't want to have to "tidy away" the redundant 4 pin cables that some fans have - so that rules out the Nexus 92mm, which maybe is a little lacking in flow for what I need anyway. I was thinking for a airflow vs sound compromise, probably the Zalman ZM-F2 would be best - I do fancy the Acoustifan Dustproof model which is rated for 6 years and looks sturdy, but it has only 28cfm max...
Any advice would be much appreciated!! Thanks, Durwin
Has anyone replaced the 92mm fans in a Dell Server?
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Don't have a PowerEdge 1900 but just did my old Dell 8300.
It seems that you have more fans than you need. What kind of fans do the Dell come with?
I thought many Nexus 92mm models have 3-pins. Actually, I deal with more 3-pin fans than 4-pins. And I keep thinking Europeans make the best fans
I can't get NoiseBlocker, Fander here.. Noctua is from Europe. Only Scythe is not.
And I imagine you have more space in the PowerEdge. You may consider putting up a bigger 120mm fan if possible.
The 2nd fan for the empty CPU slot is probably not needed?? and perhaps the expansion slot as well.. but since I can't see the layout, I am not sure which fans are pushing the air out of the case.
I unplugged the fan connector (holder) from the mobo.. took a plier and 5 mins.. to pull it out gently.. and I plug any standard 3pin 92mm back into the old Dell..
It seems that you have more fans than you need. What kind of fans do the Dell come with?
I thought many Nexus 92mm models have 3-pins. Actually, I deal with more 3-pin fans than 4-pins. And I keep thinking Europeans make the best fans
I can't get NoiseBlocker, Fander here.. Noctua is from Europe. Only Scythe is not. And I imagine you have more space in the PowerEdge. You may consider putting up a bigger 120mm fan if possible.
The 2nd fan for the empty CPU slot is probably not needed?? and perhaps the expansion slot as well.. but since I can't see the layout, I am not sure which fans are pushing the air out of the case.
I unplugged the fan connector (holder) from the mobo.. took a plier and 5 mins.. to pull it out gently.. and I plug any standard 3pin 92mm back into the old Dell..
I think there are more than necessary too... but although I've built PCs since the late 80's I haven't ever messed around with servers so I don't know if the thermal tolerances are different. I would have thought a Quad Xeon processor wouldn't run too hot if its anything like the desktop versions, and memory? No idea but I've never had to cool memory before, other than relying on normal case flow. If I can get a fully stacked P180 case nice and cool with just 3 fans I'm sure a huge server like this with lots of empty space should be fine...
I don't know what fans they are offhand but in "quiet" mode (around 25deg system temp) they're running around 2500rpm, I would guess they're 5-6000 at full speed. Each fan is a 38mm deep model with a hot-swap power plug (ie its part of the fan case, not on a cable) and fits into a custom orange "cradle" which then slots into various points on the chassis, with the power plug lining up into a socket on the board. I've tried a standard 25mm deep 92" fan and it fits the cradle although with room to spare I'm worried about vibration. I'll just ignore the built in power socket and route the fan power leads to the fan controller, which takes 3-pin. I have a bunch of Nexus fans in my other machines and yes, they're 3-pin but also have 4-pin on the same cable. I don't really want that because the 4 pin leads/plugs might come loose and foul up something else, so I really wanted a fan with just a 3-pin plug, so no loose wires anywhere. I've heard of the other fans you mention but can't find anyone offhand that sell them here - the Noctua I can get in 80mm or 120mm but not 92mm, and because each fan has to snap into a specific holder, I can't put larger fans in (would love some 120mms in there).
The other thing is I want to be able to reverse any change easily in case the machine develops a fault and needs servicing, I'm sure Dell wouldn't touch it if the fans have all been swapped out (despite my making sure the cooling isn't any less efficient)!
I don't know if we can list websites on here, but if anyone can suggest a good source for a wide range of fans (they all seem to stock a limited range) in the UK I'd be grateful!
Cheers, Durwin
I don't know what fans they are offhand but in "quiet" mode (around 25deg system temp) they're running around 2500rpm, I would guess they're 5-6000 at full speed. Each fan is a 38mm deep model with a hot-swap power plug (ie its part of the fan case, not on a cable) and fits into a custom orange "cradle" which then slots into various points on the chassis, with the power plug lining up into a socket on the board. I've tried a standard 25mm deep 92" fan and it fits the cradle although with room to spare I'm worried about vibration. I'll just ignore the built in power socket and route the fan power leads to the fan controller, which takes 3-pin. I have a bunch of Nexus fans in my other machines and yes, they're 3-pin but also have 4-pin on the same cable. I don't really want that because the 4 pin leads/plugs might come loose and foul up something else, so I really wanted a fan with just a 3-pin plug, so no loose wires anywhere. I've heard of the other fans you mention but can't find anyone offhand that sell them here - the Noctua I can get in 80mm or 120mm but not 92mm, and because each fan has to snap into a specific holder, I can't put larger fans in (would love some 120mms in there).
The other thing is I want to be able to reverse any change easily in case the machine develops a fault and needs servicing, I'm sure Dell wouldn't touch it if the fans have all been swapped out (despite my making sure the cooling isn't any less efficient)!
I don't know if we can list websites on here, but if anyone can suggest a good source for a wide range of fans (they all seem to stock a limited range) in the UK I'd be grateful!
Cheers, Durwin
The dell CPU cooler should be sufficient if any changes you made didn't lower its air flow. (simple thing I would do is to put a probe in the case to measure the temperature before & after I turn off the extra fans)
However, that may not be sufficient since you actually need to replace the fans with slower ones(hopefully equal cfm)
I don't know how that cradle works. My Dell fan is in a shroud (air channel thingy above the CPU). It is mounted with rubber grommets so I just mount new fans with these vibration damping thingy.. If my 4 years old desktop has that, I would imagine your server has them as well.. if not, you can always buy them for couple dollars. My old dell fan is also 38mm. I have the details(models etc) in the other thread.
When u say 4-pin, do u mean 4-pin molex or 4 pin PWM? Most fans offer 3-pin and 4 pin molex. If you use the 4 pin, you can't control the speed via onboard controller.. (but you can usually do that through voltage.
You can always tie those loose wires up with your favorite cable ties if you don't want them loose. I don't see any issue or need to get fans with just one head because of loose wires that you yourself can tie up. (Besides, they usually come tied up here in US with a special way to wrap them)
You need to take a closer look at those mounts. It is hard to picture it without a picture
And people use cable ties etc to tie things up like fans all the time. I strapped fans on various ways to test out with cable ties. It takes a few seconds to cut them loose and reverse to before.
For fan buying sources in UK, trying google.
I typed scythe fan uk and returned 186,000 links. There are half dozens places selling them in uk in the first 2 pages..
SPCR has a list of recommended fans for various sizes..search the site Nexus is one of the recommended for the 92mm.. You need to find out your Dell fan model so that people can help you find an appropriate fan. (I did the same.. In my case, I actually replace 1 fan with 2 slower fans)
And it would be best you put up a drawing of the air flow and fans if you really want help .
However, that may not be sufficient since you actually need to replace the fans with slower ones(hopefully equal cfm)
I don't know how that cradle works. My Dell fan is in a shroud (air channel thingy above the CPU). It is mounted with rubber grommets so I just mount new fans with these vibration damping thingy.. If my 4 years old desktop has that, I would imagine your server has them as well.. if not, you can always buy them for couple dollars. My old dell fan is also 38mm. I have the details(models etc) in the other thread.
When u say 4-pin, do u mean 4-pin molex or 4 pin PWM? Most fans offer 3-pin and 4 pin molex. If you use the 4 pin, you can't control the speed via onboard controller.. (but you can usually do that through voltage.
You can always tie those loose wires up with your favorite cable ties if you don't want them loose. I don't see any issue or need to get fans with just one head because of loose wires that you yourself can tie up. (Besides, they usually come tied up here in US with a special way to wrap them)
You need to take a closer look at those mounts. It is hard to picture it without a picture
And people use cable ties etc to tie things up like fans all the time. I strapped fans on various ways to test out with cable ties. It takes a few seconds to cut them loose and reverse to before.For fan buying sources in UK, trying google.
I typed scythe fan uk and returned 186,000 links. There are half dozens places selling them in uk in the first 2 pages..
SPCR has a list of recommended fans for various sizes..search the site Nexus is one of the recommended for the 92mm.. You need to find out your Dell fan model so that people can help you find an appropriate fan. (I did the same.. In my case, I actually replace 1 fan with 2 slower fans)
And it would be best you put up a drawing of the air flow and fans if you really want help .
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Firetech
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The above thread may be of interest and the information therein could impact on your plans to replace the CPU fan.
Hope it works out for you
The above thread may be of interest and the information therein could impact on your plans to replace the CPU fan.
Hope it works out for you
Here's a pic of the interior:
http://blog.assembleron.com/wp-content/1900_1.jpg
All those fans in the middle are a bit overkill, but I guess they're there more to suck as much air as possible through the 6 SAS disks than to cool the CPU/MOBO/RAM. Don't suppose you can monitor the temperatures of SAS disk can you? Then go from there.. if not, sorry for my ignorance I don't know a thing about those disks.
http://blog.assembleron.com/wp-content/1900_1.jpg
All those fans in the middle are a bit overkill, but I guess they're there more to suck as much air as possible through the 6 SAS disks than to cool the CPU/MOBO/RAM. Don't suppose you can monitor the temperatures of SAS disk can you? Then go from there.. if not, sorry for my ignorance I don't know a thing about those disks.
Thanks for all the comments guys, I've been "offline" for a while so didn't get a chance to catch up...
Shaman, thanks a lot for that photo, my server is on 24x7 and it seems so hard finding time to take it apart, so you've saved me the trouble! I should have taken photos last time I had it open... (Just to explain for others, those orange things you can see are the clamps which fit onto each fan, to remove them you just squeeze the 2 handles on each side and the whole lot just pops out. There's little to no scope for putting fans in a different location.) I agree that the fans are probably doing more for the disks than anything else, the whole of the front of the server is covered in holes so I'm not sure how effective airflow really is!! The disks are in a RAID group so I can't use SMART to monitor their temperatures and there's nothing other than system temp in the Dell administrator - I'd probably have to get some probes in there which I can do with the BigNG fan controller.
BTW, thanks for the link Firetech, I'd come across that thread but hadn't picked up on the link in there to the Poweredge forums... will have to look through those. I'm hoping that a server won't have the "Press F1 to continue" error if it can't see the fans...
Java_ed, I take your point about the cables, I just wanted to keep it as tidy as possible. I have used Google to find fan suppliers, but haven't seen anything that stands out as ideal for what I need. I like the Nexus fans but the 92mm is only rated for 27cfm max, and I think I'll need more than that for the hot summers we seem to be having over here (no air conditioning). The Acoustifan is also 28cfm but otherwise would be ideal, same with the Noiseblocker. The Zalman is 53cfm max but even reduced its 40cfm @ 20db, I just in the past found these Zalman fans to be noisier than expected... but I expect its what I'll choose.
Once again, thanks for the help and advice everyone! If I get a final solution I'll update the post for future searches.
Shaman, thanks a lot for that photo, my server is on 24x7 and it seems so hard finding time to take it apart, so you've saved me the trouble! I should have taken photos last time I had it open... (Just to explain for others, those orange things you can see are the clamps which fit onto each fan, to remove them you just squeeze the 2 handles on each side and the whole lot just pops out. There's little to no scope for putting fans in a different location.) I agree that the fans are probably doing more for the disks than anything else, the whole of the front of the server is covered in holes so I'm not sure how effective airflow really is!! The disks are in a RAID group so I can't use SMART to monitor their temperatures and there's nothing other than system temp in the Dell administrator - I'd probably have to get some probes in there which I can do with the BigNG fan controller.
BTW, thanks for the link Firetech, I'd come across that thread but hadn't picked up on the link in there to the Poweredge forums... will have to look through those. I'm hoping that a server won't have the "Press F1 to continue" error if it can't see the fans...
Java_ed, I take your point about the cables, I just wanted to keep it as tidy as possible. I have used Google to find fan suppliers, but haven't seen anything that stands out as ideal for what I need. I like the Nexus fans but the 92mm is only rated for 27cfm max, and I think I'll need more than that for the hot summers we seem to be having over here (no air conditioning). The Acoustifan is also 28cfm but otherwise would be ideal, same with the Noiseblocker. The Zalman is 53cfm max but even reduced its 40cfm @ 20db, I just in the past found these Zalman fans to be noisier than expected... but I expect its what I'll choose.
Once again, thanks for the help and advice everyone! If I get a final solution I'll update the post for future searches.
Tedn, yes I did order 6 Noctua 92mm fans but I haven't yet been able to install them, been away and otherwise busy etc. Your question is a good prompt for me to complete my project. I did install a mCubed BigNG into the server, if you don't know, this is an automated fan controller which can be installed physically without actually connecting to the computer and can be configured through its external USB port so you don't need to install any software or drivers either. I have taped a number of digital and analogue thermal probes to various places in the case (this is the job I hate, trying to find places where you can put a small probe but which give valid thermal results too). My aim was to baseline the temperatures around the case with the stock fans before I switch over to the Noctua fans, but I haven't got around to doing so yet, plus I moved the server to another room temporarily, that room being much cooler naturally, while I went away.
I hope the move the server back to its proper place and do the baselining, then install the new fans, within a week or two - can let you know then, but sorry if its not timely enough for you though... I hate moving this server, its so heavy!
Cheers, Durwin
I hope the move the server back to its proper place and do the baselining, then install the new fans, within a week or two - can let you know then, but sorry if its not timely enough for you though... I hate moving this server, its so heavy!
Cheers, Durwin
OK, I had to move the server back to its normal place (read: warm room) so I took the opportunity to replace one of the fans as a test. Firstly, the Noctua fan fits the orange bracket OK, its obviously half the width but seems to be held OK. When you slot the orange bracket back into the case it seems to fit at a slight angle where the bottom of the fan is pushed back slightly, I couldn't get it to do otherwise but it seemed OK - the Dell fans being thicker wouldn't do this.
However once I powered the thing up with the 1 replaced fan, I discovered that the server detected the Dell fan as missing and so ran all fans at 100%, it was almost deafening. I made numerous attempts at trying to get into the BIOS which seemed hit and miss (maybe because I was using a KVM which didn't enable the keyboard in time) but when I got in I couldn't find any settings for turning off a fan or adjusting the behaviour. Additionally, with the fan missing (it was the one that cools the add-in cards) the server would flash the front status screen in orange to say there was an error. Faced with doing all the fans at once or replacing the original Dell fan, I chose the latter and have left it for now. I really need a few hours to do all the fans, route the cables and monitor the temperatures (difficult without the BigNG because the server only reports one temperature, the "System temp")
So, in short, the Noctua fans will work but you'll have to do them ALL at once or endure the noise, and you'll have to put up with the front status display constantly flashing an error. I don't yet know if removing one of these fans will cause the server to fail to boot (if it can't see it), there's no setting I can find to cancel that if it does...
Will report back when I have time to do all 6...
However once I powered the thing up with the 1 replaced fan, I discovered that the server detected the Dell fan as missing and so ran all fans at 100%, it was almost deafening. I made numerous attempts at trying to get into the BIOS which seemed hit and miss (maybe because I was using a KVM which didn't enable the keyboard in time) but when I got in I couldn't find any settings for turning off a fan or adjusting the behaviour. Additionally, with the fan missing (it was the one that cools the add-in cards) the server would flash the front status screen in orange to say there was an error. Faced with doing all the fans at once or replacing the original Dell fan, I chose the latter and have left it for now. I really need a few hours to do all the fans, route the cables and monitor the temperatures (difficult without the BigNG because the server only reports one temperature, the "System temp")
So, in short, the Noctua fans will work but you'll have to do them ALL at once or endure the noise, and you'll have to put up with the front status display constantly flashing an error. I don't yet know if removing one of these fans will cause the server to fail to boot (if it can't see it), there's no setting I can find to cancel that if it does...
Will report back when I have time to do all 6...
Please report back when you doDurwin wrote:Will report back when I have time to do all 6...
I did the same mistake as you: bought it without checking at the noise. I've only worked with rack servers which have been bearable but when i opened PE 1900 i was shocked of the amount of fans. I was even more shocked when I first booted it up. It felt like working at an airport.
IMO it's ridiculous that the system runs the fans constantly at way too high rpm regardless of system temperature and load. I'd love to know what information is sent in those 4pin fan connectors (aside from rpm i've found out that it might possibly send fan health/fail information).
I'm now pondering between switching them all to nexus 92mm silent fans running at ~800-1500rpm and at least removing 2-3 of the fans as I only have one cpu and two DDR's and the same 6 sata hdd's i had in my old server (and the hdd's survived for 2 years fine with a lot less fans).
Also - response to your question:
I removed all the fans from their sockets. During boot it tested the PSU fan which quickly quieted down, and the system began booting normally. Only problem was the flashing fan error message. Oh and the system was finally as silent as my old server with only the psu fan ;D
Too bad the SAS HDD's seem to be a lot louder than all SATA drives i've encountered so far. I might be replacing those as i was anyway annoyed by their low capacity and the lack of possibility of removing them from the order. This server isn't critical so I prefer running it from SATA for the extra GB and silence.
Do you run linux on the server? I'd love to hear if linux fan controlling works with PE 1900.
If not, i'll just go with the nexus fans oslt even though i'm annoyed that i'll lose control over fan speed and failure. The noise is simply UNBEARABLE.
For all you other people, here's a picture of a PE1900 fan:
http://img189.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _484lo.JPG
I'm hoping the standard ATX 4pin fan connector is compatible with this dell's fan wire layout.
Replaced fans in Dell PowerEdge 1900
Well, I finally got enough downtime to replace all the fans in our PowerEdge 1900 server. I took out all six of the Dell fans and replaced them with Noctua 92mm quiet fans. They were all connected to a mCubed T-Balancer BigNG fan controller, which is totally independent of the server - I used the external USB connector from the controller to connect to a laptop which had the T-Balancer software installed. I had also connected up six thermal probes and attached them to various points on the server - (2 hard disks, CPU heatsink, memory heatsink, HD controller heatsink and heatsink on a large chip on the motherboard - something like a North/South bridge). Over the past few months I've been monitoring the temperatures from these probes compared to the ambient room temperature.
So, deep breath, I turned the server on. Bearing in mind there are 6 SAS disks in the front, it was pretty quiet, I don't think I could hear the fans over the disks. I used a torch to check all fans were running, they were set to 100% on the fan controller. I then checked the probe temperatures and that's when things started to look bad.
I've listed the temperatures I recorded, firstly with the Dell fans and secondly (in brackets) with the Noctua fans:
Room temp: 21C (21C)
Hard disks: 35.5C & 38C (40.5C & 40.0C)
CPU heatsink: 28C (33.5C)
Memory heatsink: 44.5C (59C)
Motherboard heatsink: 37C (49C)
HD controller heatsink: 51C (59C)
System Temp in Dell Administrator: 24C (24C)
Fan speeds: all around 2550rpm (didn't take a note but I think c1900rpm)
I'll be honest, I panicked when I saw some of the temperatures and I didn't keep the system on for more than about 10 minutes. I could hardly feel any airflow going through the case, even with my fingers right by the fan. Frankly, a 15C rise in temperature on a heatsink was just too much for me to consider "safe" so I have had to rip all the Noctua fans out and put back in the Dell ones. I stupidly didn't take a note of the Noctua fan speeds so I will replace one of them again and take a reading, just to be sure they were running at full speed - however the controller was set to 100% speed and I didn't use any resistors etc to drop the speeds.
So, overall, I'm very depressed that it was a failure in my mind, I'm going to have to bear this ridiculous noise for the life time of this server!
Hope that helps someone...
So, deep breath, I turned the server on. Bearing in mind there are 6 SAS disks in the front, it was pretty quiet, I don't think I could hear the fans over the disks. I used a torch to check all fans were running, they were set to 100% on the fan controller. I then checked the probe temperatures and that's when things started to look bad.
I've listed the temperatures I recorded, firstly with the Dell fans and secondly (in brackets) with the Noctua fans:
Room temp: 21C (21C)
Hard disks: 35.5C & 38C (40.5C & 40.0C)
CPU heatsink: 28C (33.5C)
Memory heatsink: 44.5C (59C)
Motherboard heatsink: 37C (49C)
HD controller heatsink: 51C (59C)
System Temp in Dell Administrator: 24C (24C)
Fan speeds: all around 2550rpm (didn't take a note but I think c1900rpm)
I'll be honest, I panicked when I saw some of the temperatures and I didn't keep the system on for more than about 10 minutes. I could hardly feel any airflow going through the case, even with my fingers right by the fan. Frankly, a 15C rise in temperature on a heatsink was just too much for me to consider "safe" so I have had to rip all the Noctua fans out and put back in the Dell ones. I stupidly didn't take a note of the Noctua fan speeds so I will replace one of them again and take a reading, just to be sure they were running at full speed - however the controller was set to 100% speed and I didn't use any resistors etc to drop the speeds.
So, overall, I'm very depressed that it was a failure in my mind, I'm going to have to bear this ridiculous noise for the life time of this server!
Hope that helps someone...
Hi,
If you don't mind modding things, you could try cutting out the fan grills... I got rid of the ones in front of my 92 mm noctua fans and it seemed to make a difference in airflow (although I have to way to measure that). It can't hurt anyways (except your warranty).
Did you try plugging a noctua fan in your controler without putting it in your case and running it at full speed in free air just to get a feeling of what kind of airflow to expect ? I'm surprised you couldn't feel much air at all because even if 37CFM is far from 110, it is still a decent number... I'm just wondering if your controller really gives those fans a full 100% power.
PS : I also found this forum (sorry if you've seen this before): http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportfor ... d.id=21766
If you don't mind modding things, you could try cutting out the fan grills... I got rid of the ones in front of my 92 mm noctua fans and it seemed to make a difference in airflow (although I have to way to measure that). It can't hurt anyways (except your warranty).
Did you try plugging a noctua fan in your controler without putting it in your case and running it at full speed in free air just to get a feeling of what kind of airflow to expect ? I'm surprised you couldn't feel much air at all because even if 37CFM is far from 110, it is still a decent number... I'm just wondering if your controller really gives those fans a full 100% power.
PS : I also found this forum (sorry if you've seen this before): http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportfor ... d.id=21766
Thanks, I will try again with just one of the fans and see what the airflow feels like, I was also surprised the airflow seemed weak. I don't want to make any changes to the server components because I don't want to blow the 3 year service warranty I have (probably already done that...), unless you mean the grill on the fan itself, I'll have a look. I hadn't seen that thread, so thanks for the link. Will update if I find anything.
Thanks again
Thanks again
It seems to me that a full set of Nortua fans would do you just fine. You may need to consider replacing the heatsinks with the largest temperature differences, namely the Memory heatsink (14.5 deg diff) and the Motherboard heatsink (12deg diff).
I also think that Dell may have over applied the thermal compound on two heatsinks with the largest temperature differences. you may find that by removing and reapplying thermal compound in the affected area, you will get a temperature drop.
If both thermal grease reapplication followed by replacement of the heatsinks in question does not lower the operating temperature, then your only avenue left is to swap in the original Delta fans over selected areas (the areas containing the hottest components) while leaving the rest of the cooling to the Nortua fans.
I also think that Dell may have over applied the thermal compound on two heatsinks with the largest temperature differences. you may find that by removing and reapplying thermal compound in the affected area, you will get a temperature drop.
If both thermal grease reapplication followed by replacement of the heatsinks in question does not lower the operating temperature, then your only avenue left is to swap in the original Delta fans over selected areas (the areas containing the hottest components) while leaving the rest of the cooling to the Nortua fans.