65ºC is very high for any Athlon64... My Athlon64 never (or barely) reaches 50ºC at full load... Maybe a few hours of CPUburn would help to melt the product on an Athlon64... For those Prescott "powerplants", it shouldn't be a problem...In order to get the TherMax to flow, you have to run the CPU up to 65ºC. Once this is done, the material is set and you achieve consistent results at all temperatures
New metallic TIM from TherMax Korea: HiFlux TIM HF-60110BT
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New metallic TIM from TherMax Korea: HiFlux TIM HF-60110BT
There's a new thermal compound on the market: the HiFlux TIM HF-60110BT. It's made by TherMax Korea and it's supposed to beat AS5 in thermal conductivity. The HiFlux TIM comes as a thin metal sheet (low melt alloys) that you apply on the CPU... It seems pretty good on paper... However, I see a problem:
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Re: New metallic TIM from TherMax Korea: HiFlux TIM HF-60110
I believe 65° is the maximum operating temperature for 64s. Mine shuts down by then (system hangs). The only processor I would ever use this for is a Prescott - too dangerous with any other processor, even an Athlon XP.In order to get the TherMax to flow, you have to run the CPU up to 65ºC. Once this is done, the material is set and you achieve consistent results at all temperatures
Correction: 65° for all cores except Clawhammer/Sledgehammer, which are 70°.
Last edited by StarfishChris on Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Athlon XP's have a critical temperature of 95ºC according to AMD, which is far from the 65ºC melting point of this product. In practice, an Athlon XP would probably crash or become unstable reaching the high 70's-80ºC. My Palomino (1900+) was idling at around 50ºC and could easily reach 65ºC at full load with the stock cooler. Try to get the same temperatures with an Athlon64 and your computer would probably hang or start acting very strangely... 65ºC is the critical temperature for an Athlon64 (70ºC for S754 CPU's).Erssa wrote:My palomino athlon 1700+ idles around 60-63 degrees and goes upto 69 in load. Crappy heatsink with a crappy 40mm fan (fanmated to 6v). It's been running like this for 2 years now. No stability issues. People are too scared of temps imo...
With a Pentium IV, it's a different story. Theoretically, it's impossible to overheat the CPU because of the SpeedStep technology... A Pentium IV starts to throttle at around 70ºC (the CPU speed decreases to avoid overheating). I saw a video where a Pentium IV kept working after the heatsink was totally removed, but the system became "extremely" slow...
This stuff will definitely work for Pentium IV's (especially the Prescotts), it should also work with Athlon XP's... But I would never try this on my Athlon64... I'm pretty happy with the performance of my AS5 right now, and this one doesn't need to reach a high temperature to be melted... However, There's a good point about this product: it's a sheet that you apply and not a paste that you spread, so you're always sure to put the right amount of TIM on your CPU...
Actually, the max temp for newer A64E is individual, and may times something like 55 - 57 degrees.
Here's a good link with some info.
Here is the program for reading MaxTCase.
I don't really see this as a problem, that temperature is the max for continous work. Going above 65 degrees once just for letting the compound flow doesn't scare me off. Or go for an Opteron instead, they have higher temps in general.
Here's a good link with some info.
Here is the program for reading MaxTCase.
I don't really see this as a problem, that temperature is the max for continous work. Going above 65 degrees once just for letting the compound flow doesn't scare me off. Or go for an Opteron instead, they have higher temps in general.
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If you read through the thread that Mats linked to, you'll find that that number is what AMD guarantees as the maximum stable temperature for the heatspreader casing. This is not the same as the 95 degree temp that Slaugh mentioned for Athlon XPs. XPs don't have heatspreaders, so the numbers are in on way comparable.
As far as I can tell, running above the max. casing temp shouldn't harm your CPU in the short term; it just won't be guaranteed stable, and it may void your warranty.
But, you still haven't answered my question, or the OP's question:
OP: How do you manage to get it above 65 degrees in the first place?
Me: What's the point of buying special thermal compound if it doesn't go this high?
As far as I can tell, running above the max. casing temp shouldn't harm your CPU in the short term; it just won't be guaranteed stable, and it may void your warranty.
But, you still haven't answered my question, or the OP's question:
OP: How do you manage to get it above 65 degrees in the first place?
Me: What's the point of buying special thermal compound if it doesn't go this high?
To get an optimal contact between the two surfaces. The lid/IHS and the heatsink gets soldered (don't get me wrong!) together, although I certainly don't mean that the heatsink will stay on by itself after that temp rise. Even if your CPU never goes beyond 40 degrees you would see a big difference after you've followed that procedure. If it works at all, that is!Devonavar wrote:What's the point of buying special thermal compound if it doesn't go this high?
I don't think it's that strange, but I'm very curious how good it works compared to the competitors.
...if it hasn't melted in place yet, it probably won't work very well, and so your CPU should hit 65 degrees pretty quick. if it doesn't get that hot, then it's obviously working pretty well even without being melted, was still easier to apply than regular TIM and then you can probably reuse it.Devonavar wrote:OP: How do you manage to get it above 65 degrees in the first place?
Me: What's the point of buying special thermal compound if it doesn't go this high?
sort of backwards really, like asking why one would need a fan for their heatsink if the heatsink never gets hotter than the CPU.
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Let's ask Devonavar's question a bit stronger. Maybe then you all will start understanding what he is trying to point out.Devonavar wrote:OP: How do you manage to get it above 65 degrees in the first place?
Me: What's the point of buying special thermal compound if it doesn't go this high?
What is the point of wasting money on some supercharged termal compound if your CPU won't get to 65°C when using the generic thermal paste that came with your heatsink (or toothpaste).
That 65°C is a recommended temperature to assure adequate flow into all surface asperities of the CPU die or heatspreader. As Straker said, if the contact between this newly applied metal sheet and the CPU die/heatspreader isn't good, the temperature will quickly rise to 65°C. At this temperature, the product is supposed to melt, resulting in lower temperatures afterward...
There are other LMA that need lower temperatures to melt (as low as 10°C). Some of them are actually highly corrosive or toxic, so they're not suitable for TIM application. Here's a technical paper about the ones used for TIM applications (with TherMax Korea as one of the references):
Performance, Reliability, and Approaches Using a Low Melt Alloy as a Thermal Interface Material
These two paragraphs summarize everything without being too technical:
There are other LMA that need lower temperatures to melt (as low as 10°C). Some of them are actually highly corrosive or toxic, so they're not suitable for TIM application. Here's a technical paper about the ones used for TIM applications (with TherMax Korea as one of the references):
Performance, Reliability, and Approaches Using a Low Melt Alloy as a Thermal Interface Material
These two paragraphs summarize everything without being too technical:
Tibor and Devonavar have good points here. If this product is only reducing your CPU temperature by only a few degrees, at the risk of voiding your warranty or ruining the CPU, then it's definitely not recommended. Maybe we should wait for more reviews on this stuff, or wait until trustful companies like Arctic Silver add something similar to their product lines... As I said in the first post, it looks good on paper, but after reading those technical papers, it became obvious that these products could be risky for what they really give.LMA alloys as a thermal interface material offer superior thermal performance due to their high thermal conductivities and low contact resistance, resulting from excellent surface wetting. Reworkability, ease of handling, and a lack of cure make this attractive in a high volume setting.
The various failure mechanisms which have plagued the past and present LMA products will be mitigated by applying a multidisciplinary approach to the challenge.
Last edited by Slaugh on Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guess we'll have to wait and see, again.
But right now I think this product is more suitable for those who easily get to 65 degrees, like my friends P4. It stays around 65 in BIOS.
But if ou really want it for your A64E, then try to find out a way to heat it up while the computer is turned off in a safe way!
But right now I think this product is more suitable for those who easily get to 65 degrees, like my friends P4. It stays around 65 in BIOS.
But if ou really want it for your A64E, then try to find out a way to heat it up while the computer is turned off in a safe way!
Believe I already answered you, unless your CPU runs that cool without a heatsink.StarfishChris wrote:I think my question has been missed in all of this: what happens if your CPU cannot reach 65° at all?
I read that review a few days ago so I don't remember clearly, but to be fair, I think he did mention that the results didn't look as good using a real CPU as when he used a heat gun to melt it. Not sure if I'd be too comfortable using something that inherently limits its own performance... that is, it'd be a lot nicer if it melted 20 degrees lower, and so had more than one chance to get it right.
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